Introduction-

Rob- Welcome to episode 337 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and if you’re still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor David Cole. What has been keeping you so busy?

David- Hi, Rob. I’ve been doing a little hunting (not enough), testing out my new chronograph of the range, and a bit of dry fire practice.

How about you?

Rob- I’ve been dry practicing. I also want to thank Roger for his help this week. We received some messages from people who will write for us, so that was my Christmas present.

David- Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and tell new gun owners why you listen.

Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times a day. We look at a few recent examples to see what we can learn. The links back to the original news articles are on our podcast webpage.

Our first story took place last week in Denver, Colorado.

Rob- First story- Are you armed in public?

You and your girlfriend are taking your kids to the museum. It is the middle of the weekday afternoon when you park your car and start to unload your kids. You see two young men run toward you. They are armed and have guns in their hands. One of them hits you in the back of the head. You’re armed as well. You present your firearm and shoot at your attackers. They run. They also shoot at you as they run across the parking lot. You stop shooting and check on your family. No one is wounded. You call 911 and ask for help. You stay at the scene. You and your girlfriend give statements to the police. You describe your attackers, their clothing, and their get-away car.

Police arrest your attacker when he is dropped off at the hospital. Unfortunately, the officers don’t stop the car that drops him off. Your attacker is charged with four counts of attempted first-degree murder, two counts of felony menacing, and attempted aggravated robbery.

David-  I’m glad that our defender recognized that we all face risks when we’re out in public. It sounds like he put together a plan that included carrying a firearm when he was out with his family. He recognized a threat. He defended himself. He stopped shooting when the bad guys stopped shooting. He checked on his family. They stayed at the scene and called for help. They couple met the police officers with empty hands. They both gave statements to the police.

Rob- That is a lot to get right. What else do you see that wasn’t mentioned in the news reports?

David- A plan begins with your family. What can they contribute? Have you walked through the plan with them and taken their ideas? Have you sought out first aid training? How about firearms safety training? Do all the adults have their carry permits? Have they trained together? Have they taken an armed defense class together, and a legal use of lethal force class together?

I bring up those issues because going to the store and buying a gun is the easy part. You can buy a gun in a half hour. Becoming skilled in its use as a tool of armed defense takes some effort.

I want the couple to pay attention so they have an opportunity to avoid an attack. I’m glad that the robbers missed, but I want the defender to be better at hitting his target and stopping the threat. This was probably a busy area given the location and time of day, so the risk of hitting innocent bystanders would be high. All shots hit something! Rule 4 applies in gunfights as well as the range.

The parking lot is a transition area where you’re changing your activities. Work as a team so that one of you is looking around as the other is getting a child ready for the museum. Once your partner is ready, then they become the lookout as you work on your side of the car.

If you see a threat and shout stop, then the kids have to know to get down and your partner has to know to draw their gun and get behind cover. Most criminals will turn and run rather than walk into a gunfight.

Rob- I noticed that both bad guys were armed and had their guns out.

David- I saw that too. While it is essential to carry at least one spare magazine or speed loader, having an armed partner who knows how to work with you can be a great force multiplier.

Rob- I noticed that the bad guys were shooting at the family as the bad guys ran away. That means the defender might shoot the bad guy in the back as he runs.

David- That could happen. The important point is that you know the law and can articulate why innocent people were at an immediate risk and that shooting the fleeing robber was the safest thing to do. Both of you need that knowledge so that you are both acting consistently and within the law.

More to the point, you want a lawyer available to advise you before you give a formal statement to the police.

Rob- Is there more you want to cover in this story, or should we go on?

David- It’s a good start. Our second story happened in Reeds Spring, Missouri.

What did our defender do correctly?

(Bullet points by Roger T.)

• The defender wanted to protect his family so he chose to carry a gun when he took his family to a museum. In some states, carrying a gun in a museum or even in the parking lot of a museum is a crime since that area is considered a “sensitive place.” Know the laws in your area. If you can’t carry your gun with you, should you take your family there? Do a risk assessment. 


• The defender held his fire until he was struck. Perhaps he should have fired sooner like when he first saw the two men running at him with guns in their hands. Watch the hands- they’re what kills. Know the laws about the Use of Deadly Force. You don’t have to wait to be shot or stabbed in order to defend yourself or others.


• The defender shot at the fleeing bad guys who were shooting at him as they fled. As long as the fleeing bad guys were presenting a threat he is allowed to keep shooting. When the threat stops, the shooting stops.


• The defender stayed at the scene, checked on his family and gave descriptions and a statement to the police. 

What would you tell your students to do (that the defender should have done)?

(Bullet points by Roger T.)

• The attackers got close enough to the defender in order to hit him in the head. Could the defender have drawn his gun as he moved to cover? Did the defender know how to shoot from a retention position?


• Did the defender know to move away from his family while he engaged in a gunfight? The bad guys are going to shoot at the guy with the gun and if the unarmed family members are near the defender they may get shot. 


• How many rounds of ammo did the defender have? The news article stated that the attackers had extended magazines which are illegal in Colorado. They were ready and willing to get into a gunfight. Was the defender sufficiently prepared? Colorado limits the ammo capacity to 15 rounds per magazine but it doesn’t limit carrying additional mags or a back-up gun. Attackers are like wolves- they come in packs.  

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed at home?

You and your family are at home on a Saturday evening. It is about 10:30 when you hear someone outside. Your wife calls 911 and asks for help. You go out on your front porch to see if someone needs help. A stranger crawls through the woods and shouts at you. You tell him that help is on the way and to stay away. The stranger rushes you and grabs you. You present your firearm and shoot your attacker. He lets go of you so you stop shooting.

You and your wife give statements to the police when they arrive. The 911 recording includes your shouts for the attacker to stop and move away. A toxicology report shows that the attacker was on methamphetamine at the time of the attack. Several of his prior criminal convictions involve drug use. You are not charged with a crime.

David- I like that the couple worked as a team. They paid attention to an unusual situation and got law enforcement on the way immediately. The male homeowner grabbed a gun for self defense. He stayed on his porch rather than go exploring in the woods in the middle of the night.

The defender also gave