Introduction-

Rob- Welcome to episode 336 of Self-Defense Gun Stories. We’re glad you found us if you’re well trained.. and if you’re still learning about armed defense. I’m Rob Morse and we’re joined this week by firearms instructor Heather Reeves. What has been keeping you so busy since we talked?

<figure class="wp-caption aligncenter" id="attachment_1156" style="width: 300px;"><figcaption class="wp-caption-text" id="caption-attachment-1156">Heather Reeves</figcaption></figure>

Heather- Hi, Rob.  I’ve been enjoying the last few weeks of crazy holiday madness with family and friends, and learning new software to help edit my podcast, Everyday Carry Chicks.

How about you?

Rob- I’ve been shooting my new firearm that I got back from ATEi in Michigan. I’ve been listening to your podcast. While you were busy recording your podcast, our show received new ratings and comments on iTunes.

Chester said this was an amazing resource, and he likes that it is free.

Another listener said he learns how fast these events can happen and we help him develop plans for self-defense. 

I also want to thank Roger for his help again this week.

Dwayne sent in a story. Thank you, Dwayne.

We also had some people ask about writing for the podcast, so that was my Christmass present.

Heather- Please go to the iTunes store where you subscribe to podcasts and tell new gun owners why you listen.

Here in the US, we defend ourselves with a firearm thousands of times a day. We look at a few recent examples to see what we can learn. The links back to the original news articles are on the episode webpage.

Our first story took place last week in Greenfield, Indiana.

Rob- First story- Are you armed as you drive?

It is very clear that this story was taken from a police report. We know the incident happened in a car, but we know neither whose car it was nor who was  driving.

We know you were in a car with your ex-boyfriend. You have a restraining order out against him. That means it is a crime for him to deliberately come within several hundred feet of you.

It is about 1 in the morning. Your ex-boyfriend hits you. You tell him to stop. You present a firearm and shoot him when he doesn’t. Now he stops and runs away. You drive to a nearby business and ask for help. It isn’t clear if you had to drive in another car or if you were originally driving your own car. You call the police and stay at the business until they arrive. You give the officers a statement.

The officers find your attacker and arrest him. They apply emergency first aid until Emergency Medical Technicians arrive. EMTs take your attacker to the hospital for treatment of a gunshot wound to his arm. He is arrested upon release from the hospital and is now in jail without bond. He was recently arrested for a parole violation.

You are not charged with a crime.

Rob- Heather, what did our defender do correctly?

Heather-  Abusers try to make their victims think that abuse is normal. Our defender thought that she faced an unusual risk from her ex. She got a restraining order. She bought a firearm and learned how to use it. Last year Indiana became a constitutional carry state, so she neither needed a carry permit nor did she have to wait for one.

She recognized that it was an immediate, lethal, and unavoidable threat when an adult man was punching her as she sat in her car. She defended herself until the threat ran away. She drove to a safe location and asked for help. She talked to the police. She took them back to the scene and showed them what happened to her.

Rob- This story leaves us with several questions. Who was driving and why or how did the defender let her attacker into her car.

Heather- We don’t know if the attacker kidnapped her. You want your firearm on your body so it is there when you need it. If you’re in a car, you don’t wait until you see a car crash about to happen to put your seatbelt on. Your gun should be treated the same way. If you want to be able to use it, you must have it on you. If you ever take out a restraining order and have to meet your abuser, then we want you to do so with lots of witnesses you brought with you. Preferably big armed men who also have pepper spray in their pocket.

Rob- Is there more you want to cover on this story, or should we go on?

Heather- Let’s go to Chicago, Illinois for our second story.

What did our defender do correctly?

(Bullet points by Roger T.)

• The defender realized that her ex-boyfriend was a possible danger to her and she wisely took out a restraining order on him.


• The defender also had a gun near her in the car when the ex-boyfriend assaulted her.


• She realized that she was in an immediate, lethal and unavoidable situation and she shot the ex-boyfriend in order to stop the beating.


• After the ex-boyfriend ran off, the defender drove away to gain some distance / safety, called 911 when she stopped and gave the police a statement.  

What would you tell your students to do (that the defender should have done)?

(Bullet points by Roger T.)

• Did the defender originally let the ex-boyfriend in her car willingly or was she kidnapped? If she let the “ex” in her car willingly, she used very poor judgment and she put herself into a very dangerous position tactically. It’s not unusual for battered women to keep going back to their abusers even after they are repeatedly beaten and emotionally abused. The abusive boyfriends become masters of manipulation and they temporarily convince the women that they are sorry and that they won’t hit them again. The abusers can be very charming until the tensions and anxiety build up and they finally lash out again. It’s a vicious cycle. 


• If the ex-boyfriend had kidnapped her, the police would have charged him with that.


• The restraining order probably was not violated if the woman allowed the ex-boyfriend to get near her. 


• The defender should have brought a friend or two with her when she and the ex-boyfriend met. Or they should have met in a very public place and driven there separately.


• The defender should have had a non-lethal option with her as well as a gun. 

Rob- Second Story- Are you armed in public?

It is late on a Saturday afternoon. You are approached by four teenagers as you walk down the street. They are armed and tell you to hand everything over. Your wallet has an Illinois Firearms Owners ID card inside. You have a gun on your hip. You present your firearm and shoot the armed attacker who is closest to you. The three other attackers run. You call 911 and stay at the scene.

You put your gun away before the police arrive. EMTs take your attacker to the hospital where he is pronounced dead from a gunshot wound to the chest. You show the police your identification and your carry permit. You are 68 years old. Your attacker was 19. You are not charged with a crime.

Heather-  The 68 year old defender realized that he was a potential target of violent crime, especially in his neighborhood. He took the time, the money and he made the effort to get his carry license. That’s neither cheap nor easy in Chicago. The defender presented his gun and fired it when he was in an immediate, lethal and unavoidable situation where he was being robbed by four, armed teenagers. The defender stayed at the scene, called 911 and then gave a statement to the police.

Rob- Are there other things that weren’t mentioned in the news story?

Heather- There are a lot of things that weren’t menti