We discuss the Global Digital Marketplace, how it is improving government procurement and tackling corruption around the world.

The transcript of the episode follows:

-------------

Sarah Stewart: Hello, and welcome to the GDS Podcast. I’m Sarah Stewart, I’m a senior writer at the Government Digital Service. I’m in the studio today with two aficionados in the world of government procurement, Chantal Donaldson-Foyer and Warren Smith. Chantal, you’re head of product for the Global Digital Marketplace and Warren, you are the programme director for the Global Digital Marketplace. Welcome to you both.

Chantal Donaldson-Foyer: Thank you.

Warren Smith: Thank you very much.

Sarah: So just to start off, could you tell me a little bit more about your roles, what exactly you do?

Chantal: All right. So as head of product of the Global Digital Marketplace, I look after the programme as a whole in terms of our offering and what we’re going to do with the country. So we’ve got teams who are looking after each region and I help the product managers for each of these regions build up their offer and actually deliver it.

Sarah: Cool, Warren?

Warren: So, I have the easy job, I set the direction, the vision and make sure that we have the senior stakeholder relationships maintained in our partner countries, and that includes with the FCO as well.

Sarah: Now, government procurement enthusiasts will know what the Digital Marketplace is – but for those who don’t I thought it would be a good idea to do a quick recap before we move onto talk about your international work. So what is the Digital Marketplace?

Warren: The Digital Marketplace is a platform that is available to all of the UK public sector to enable them to buy digital data and technology products and services in support of government transformation.

Sarah: And we do that along with the Crown Commercial Service?

Warren: Yes, we do, they’re a key partner organisation for us in the Cabinet Office.

Sarah: Now, before the pair of you worked on the Global Digital Marketplace you were also on the Digital Marketplace.

Warren: Correct.

Sarah: I did describe you as aficionados earlier, so I’m going to put this claim to the test, and enrich our listeners understanding, and try and make government procurement even more interesting, with a quiz.

Warren: Love it.

Sarah: You’re going head-to-head.

Chantal: No pressure.

Sarah: No pressure. Okay, so this is on the Digital Marketplace. What happens when you open up the procurement market to suppliers of all sizes rather than just big tech companies? I’ve a list of four things that you could possibly pick from.

Warren: Oh, it’s multiple choice.

Chantal: Okay, yes.

Sarah: It’s multiple choice.

Warren: You encourage a more diverse supply chain to be involved.

Sarah: That’s on my list. Okay, well done.

Chantal: You get better value for money.

Sarah: That’s correct. It’s happening even in the room as we speak. There’s the air of…

Warren: Anticipation? (Laughter)

Sarah: I was going for competition. The increasing competition. And also the locations are more diverse.

Warren: Of course. Yes.

Sarah: Okay, this might be slightly harder. Second question, what was the Digital Marketplace’s total sales figure at the end of March?

Warren: £5.7 billion.

Sarah: Wow, correct. Okay, can you tell me what is the government’s aspirational target figure for SME spend?

Chantal: The target figure is £1 in every £3 to be spent with SME.

Sarah: By which date? Bonus question.

Warren: 2022.

Sarah: Yes.

Sarah: Which government launched its own digital marketplace in record time by working with us and using our open source code?

Chantal: Australia.

Sarah: Correct.

Chantal: Yes.

Sarah: The bonus question, how many weeks did Australia take to launch its own digital marketplace?

Warren: Six.

Chantal: Five?

Sarah: Five is the correct answer

Warren: 5 weeks, good on them.

Sarah: I have to say, yes, very good, good job. I’ve got to say, it’s a relief between the pair of you, you both got them right. So I think we’re all up to speed on the digital marketplace, so let’s go global. What is the Global Digital Marketplace?

Warren: The Global Digital Marketplace is a programme that’s working in partnership with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office aimed to help overseas governments in emerging economies to tackle corruption by transforming their procurement of digital data and technology products and services.

Sarah: How did that come about?

Warren: It was mainly following the summit that took place in 2016. Where it was felt that there was an opportunity to apply the same approaches that we’ve taken in the UK to open up markets to open up procurement and make it more transparent as a way of helping to tackle closed markets, closed processes, and more opaque processes that are often the breeding ground for corruption so that was really the sort of genesis of the concept that became the Global Digital Marketplace programme.

Sarah: The corruption angle is very interesting,how in practical terms is this corruption happening?

Warren: So it’s a good question. I think when considering corruption you have to look at the whole system in which corruption is taking place. On the one end you’ve got the very obvious corruption which is where individuals are for personal gain misappropriating public funds, but I think you also have to look on the opposite end of the spectrum where weaknesses within the system could lead to corrupt practices  to take place. So perhaps inefficiency and effectiveness within government processes or the systems, or opacity within those processes, a lack of transparency, these are all opportunities for reform and are often the breeding ground for where the corruption can start to manifest.

I think certainly the Global Digital Marketplace Programme is focusing on designing out opportunities for corruption to take place and focusing on the people involved so that we can help to build capability and increase integrity.

Sarah: We spend $9.5 trillion a year, so that’s global government procurement spend, and that’s not just IT, and of that number 2.6 trillion, which is nearly 30%, is lost through bribery or corruption.

Warren: Yes.

Sarah: So it’s a huge thing that you’re trying to tackle here. How exactly does it work, how did you begin this process?

Warren:  So we first engaged with a range of governments that were priority countries for the FCO. This is after we got the endorsement and the backing to actually take this approach. It all really starts by having the conversations with the governments and the supply chains and civil society organisations within those countries to understand what are the barriers, what are the challenges, and equally what are the opportunities for how we can work together.

We’re not claiming that we’ve solved the problem by any means in the UK but we’ve made a start, and an important start, in showing that a different way of thinking and working in – to tackle procurement is – it is possible. We also look to opportunities to how we can learn from other governments as well as sharing what we’ve been able to achieve in the UK.

Sarah: I’m really interested in the diplomatic angle here, because – say for example your friend is singing very, very badly, you might not want to tell them directly they’re singing very, very badly but it’s in everyone’s interest for them to get better. How do you approach governments, like what’s your first step, and do you take a different approach for every country, do you go and meet them?

Warren: Yes, and that’s a really important point, is not to take a standard one size fits all approach, you have to tailor your engagement approach depending on the context, and, yes, I’ve got loads of friends who are terrible singers-

Sarah:  Even in a band?

Warren: I know, yes, myself included, that’s why I’m never on the vocals. So very quickly, even though the kind of the starting point for the conversation is around tackling corruption and procurement reform, very quickly the conversations turn to government transformation and public service transformation and greater openness and transparency of government.

So I think it’s really important to see the antithesis of the negative and focus on the positive, because that’s very much where the impact and the outcomes that we want to achieve are associated. Yes, that’s how we shift the conversation to one of the future positive.

Sarah: And so for the record, who, which countries are we dealing with?

Chantal: All right, so we are currently in five countries, so that’s in Latin America, Mexico and Columbia and South Africa in Southern Africa and Indonesia and Malaysia in Southeast Asia.

Sarah: What about the discovery work, so how does that kick off?

Chantal: So actually to do the discovery we engaged with the UK supply chain to help us conduct all of the research that was necessary for us to define what the delivery of the programme was going to be. So we worked with