In this episode, Phil Gifford and Richard Pope swap stories about the odd jobs they’ve worked—from lifeguarding and grease trap cleaning to bouncer gigs and debt collection. But it’s more than fun stories—they pull leadership and ministry insights from each experience. Whether you’re scrubbing toilets or selling copiers, there are spiritual lessons everywhere.

Key Takeaways:

• Train for the unseen: Phil shares how lifeguarding taught him to prepare for emergencies that may never come—yet be ready when they do. Ministry leadership is the same.
• Humility is leadership currency: Cleaning grease traps and scrubbing toilets helped Richard value servant leadership and never ask someone to do something he wouldn’t do himself.
• Conflict is better prevented than managed: A stint as a bouncer taught the value of addressing issues early—before they explode. This translates into proactive church leadership and relational health.
• Always deliver truth with grace: Richard’s debt collection job reminded him how tone and posture matter—especially when delivering hard news in ministry.
• Every job can be a gospel opportunity: From meat markets to copier sales, Phil learned to notice what hurts and bring Jesus into the story with empathy and boldness.
• Bad leadership leaves a mark: Phil’s short-lived envelope-stuffing gig reinforced the importance of clarity, kindness, and equipping volunteers before expecting results.

Practical Tips:

• Don’t underestimate the spiritual value of your past jobs—use those lessons in how you lead and disciple others.
• When equipping volunteers, be clear, kind, and thorough—never assume they “just know” what to do.
• Embrace the hard or “low” tasks. They cultivate humility and open doors for trust.
• Ask “What hurts?” when talking with someone far from Jesus—it often opens a door to gospel conversations.
• Address conflict early, and always with the tone of grace.