Topics Covered:

• The Big Question: Can product and project models run side by side?


• Defining the Operating Models: Breakdown of product vs. project models. Why outcomes vs. outputs matter.


• Why the Shift Happened: How the history of software delivery shaped our current challenges.


• When Project Models Still Make Sense: Examples like GDPR, accessibility, and other one-off initiatives.


• Gray Areas and Edge Cases: Accessibility, internal compliance, and examples from Petra’s course work.


• Framing Work as Product or Project: Why even product teams need to think in project terms sometimes.


• Working Cross-Functionally: How to collaborate with HR, Finance, and other departments still in project mode.


• Dual Lenses, Not Rival Camps: Seeing your work through both frameworks, depending on context and constraints.


• Pattern Recognition Over Time: Learning when to switch models based on repeating challenges.


• Feedback Loops and “Done-ness”: How feedback loops reveal whether work is actually finished—or just paused.

Key Takeaways:

• Don’t get dogmatic: models are tools, not rules.


• Project models work well for one-time, compliance-driven work.


• Product models shine with evergreen challenges and durable teams.


• You can—and often should—use both lenses.


• Feedback loops help determine whether something is truly done.

Resources & Links:

• Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org


• Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com

Mentioned in the episode:

• The Product Operating Model by Marty Cagan


• General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)


• Product Discovery Courses by Teresa


• Okta


• Outlook