Digest

This podcast features a conversation with Tano City Coats, author of a new book exploring his experiences in Israel and the West Bank. The episode begins with an introduction by Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The New York Times, who emphasizes the importance of covering the 2024 election. Coats discusses his pre-trip understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, influenced by his upbringing in a black activist tradition. He describes how his perspective evolved through journalism and his desire to pursue knowledge through direct experience. He then details his journey to Israel and the West Bank, explaining the circumstances that led him to visit and the organizations that hosted him. He emphasizes the emotional impact of witnessing the realities of the conflict firsthand. Coats shares his initial visual impressions of the West Bank, highlighting the stark segregation and disparities in access to resources between Palestinians and Israelis. He describes the presence of checkpoints, poverty, and the visible signs of control and separation. He then discusses how time is used as a tool of humiliation, control, and separation in the West Bank, describing the unpredictable nature of checkpoints and the impact on Palestinians' ability to plan their lives and move freely. Coats reflects on the pervasive presence of violence in the region, noting that even those seemingly removed from the conflict are often touched by it. He contrasts the reported horrors with the everyday banalities that contribute to the overall experience of living under occupation. He highlights the stark disparities in access to water between Palestinians and Israelis, particularly in areas like Susia. He discusses the Kafka-esque nature of Israeli bureaucratic processes and their impact on Palestinians' ability to access basic services and rights. Coats draws parallels between the bureaucratic systems of the American South and the West Bank, suggesting that both utilize bureaucratic processes to maintain control and achieve desired outcomes, often at the expense of marginalized communities. He explores the concept of a Jewish state and its implications for Palestinian Israelis, arguing that defining a Jewish state based on demographics necessitates the creation of a second-tier citizenship for Palestinians, which he considers indefensible. Coats discusses the widespread belief among Palestinians that Israeli policies are designed to force them to leave the region. He describes the systematic efforts to push Palestinians further out, ultimately aiming for their departure to Jordan. The episode concludes with a discussion about the importance of Palestinian voices in the conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and recommendations for three books that offer different perspectives on the conflict.

Outlines

00:00:00

Introduction and Coats' Background

Shane Goldmacher introduces the episode and discusses the importance of covering the 2024 election. Tano City Coats introduces his new book exploring his experiences in Israel and the West Bank, discussing his prior understanding of the conflict and how his perspective evolved through journalism and direct experience.

00:00:26

Coats' Trip to Israel and the West Bank

Coats details his journey to Israel and the West Bank, explaining the circumstances that led him to visit and the organizations that hosted him. He emphasizes the emotional impact of witnessing the realities of the conflict firsthand.

00:02:28

First Impressions of the West Bank and Time as a Tool of Control

Coats shares his initial visual impressions of the West Bank, highlighting the stark segregation and disparities in access to resources between Palestinians and Israelis. He describes the presence of checkpoints, poverty, and the visible signs of control and separation. He then discusses how time is used as a tool of humiliation, control, and separation in the West Bank, describing the unpredictable nature of checkpoints and the impact on Palestinians' ability to plan their lives and move freely.

00:05:35

Violence, Disparities, and Bureaucracy

Coats reflects on the pervasive presence of violence in the region, noting that even those seemingly removed from the conflict are often touched by it. He contrasts the reported horrors with the everyday banalities that contribute to the overall experience of living under occupation. He highlights the stark disparities in access to water between Palestinians and Israelis, particularly in areas like Susia. He discusses the Kafka-esque nature of Israeli bureaucratic processes and their impact on Palestinians' ability to access basic services and rights.

00:10:30

Bureaucracy as a Tool of Domination and the Definition of a Jewish State

Coats draws parallels between the bureaucratic systems of the American South and the West Bank, suggesting that both utilize bureaucratic processes to maintain control and achieve desired outcomes, often at the expense of marginalized communities. He explores the concept of a Jewish state and its implications for Palestinian Israelis, arguing that defining a Jewish state based on demographics necessitates the creation of a second-tier citizenship for Palestinians, which he considers indefensible.

00:15:10

The Israeli Desire for Palestinian Departure

Coats discusses the widespread belief among Palestinians that Israeli policies are designed to force them to leave the region. He describes the systematic efforts to push Palestinians further out, ultimately aiming for their departure to Jordan.

00:18:32

Book Recommendations and Conclusion

The episode concludes with a discussion about the importance of Palestinian voices in the conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and recommendations for three books that offer different perspectives on the conflict.

Keywords

Q&A

• What were your initial visual impressions of the West Bank?

  Coats was struck by the stark segregation and disparities in access to resources between Palestinians and Israelis. He observed signs indicating separate areas for Palestinians and Israelis, red roofs marking settlements, and the ubiquitous presence of water tanks on roofs, signifying the Palestinians' limited access to water.

• How is time used as a tool of control and humiliation in the West Bank?

  Checkpoints are unpredictable and can appear at any moment, disrupting Palestinians' ability to plan their lives and move freely. The arbitrary nature of these checkpoints, often resulting in lengthy delays, serves as a constant reminder of their lack of control and freedom.

• What is your view on the analogy between the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and apartheid?

  Coats finds the analogy appropriate, drawing on his experiences in the West Bank and his knowledge of the American South. He believes that the Israeli system of control and segregation mirrors the oppressive systems of apartheid and Jim Crow, creating a system of second-class citizenship for Palestinians.

• What are some key books that provide different perspectives on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

  The speaker recommends "Justice for Some" by Nura Eracott, "Man, Our American Israel" by Amy Kaplan, and "The Unspoken Alliance" by Sasha Polakowski. These books offer insights into the legal framework, cultural influences, and hidden alliances surrounding the conflict.

Show Notes