The Sirkin Research Podcast

Research report season is here, and we’re willing to bet your past ones drove zero demand. After reading over 100 B2B SaaS research reports, we’ve narrowed down the 7 key reasons why most are a complete waste of time and money. Join us this episode as we break each one of them down.What is the point of a research report? (1:38)Reason 1:  Scope of report is too broad (2:17)Why broad reports do more harm than good (2:59)Reason 2: Survey audience is not your ICP (6:31)Why more respondents doesn’t equal a “better” research report (6:47)Why your survey audience must be your ICP to drive demand (8:16)Reason 3: Product > pain points (9:24)Reason 4: Using FOMO as a reason to buy your product (12:25)Why you can never guilt trip or peer pressure businesses into making a purchase (14:19)Reason 5: There’s no analysis (aka it’s just a data dump) (14:51)Why reports stuffed with stats are a red flag (15:31)What we mean by the “storyline” of your report (17:03)Reason 6: Poor analysis (19:30)What poor analysis often looks like in a report (20:43)Why marketers thinking they can do data analysis is a very serious issue (21:30)Reason 7: Inaccurate or confusing visualizations (24:04)Data visualization best practices (24:52)Resources:Webinar: 7 Reasons Why Your B2B Research Report Isn't Driving DemandConnect with the Hosts:Victoria Gamlen on LinkedInJeff Sirkin on LinkedIn

B2B research was never designed to drive demand. But does that mean it’s completely worthless? In this episode, Jeff and Victoria dive into how market research’s failings led to the creation of demand research, the six key differences between demand research and market research, and when market research is the right move. The 117-page PDF that started it all (1:37)Why a lot of data isn’t impressive, but a red flag (3:48)Why no one wants to buy research (9:46)The normalization of guesswork in B2B marketing (11:15)What B2B research was originally design for (13:34)The two sides of scaling a services-based business (16:59)DR vs MR difference 1: The scope of the survey (18:07)Why most research reports reach like a giant ad (19:04)DR vs MR difference 2: Survey audience (19:56)How we help clients get clear on their ICP (21:54)Why customer research cannot solve positioning and messaging issues (22:27)DR vs MR difference 3: Analysis layer (25:17)The undiscussed beef between marketers and analysts (26:33)DR vs MR difference 4: Objective (27:46)How the scientific method is the basis of our work (28:56)DR vs MR difference 5: The speed (29:20)DR vs MR difference 6: The output (30:03)The second important purpose of market research (32:00)When market research is appropriate (32:37)The misuse of market research by startups (33:04)Resources:How to Achieve GTM AlignmentWebinar: Demand Research 101Connect with the hosts:Victoria Gamlen on LinkedInJeff Sirkin on LinkedIn

Great design: one thing that all successful brands have in common. Yet, it’s a topic that seems to be absent from B2B marketers’ conversations. We decided to change that. For this episode, we brought on Tommy Treadway, the Head of Design at Measured. From freelance to full-time and from household names and stealth startups, Tommy’s done it all – and well. So who better than to explain all the things that non-designers (and new designers) should know with regards to this rarely discussed, yet critical element of marketing?Here are some other topics discussed on this episode of the Sirkin Research Podcast:Tommy’s unintentional and winding road into design (1:48)The differences between design roles in-house, freelance, and at agencies (4:52)The issue with W-2 bashing and the risks of freelancing as a writer or marketer (7:29)The different paths someone could take to get into a career in design today (10:14)Why doing an actual project is better experience than concept or theoretical work (12:42)The difference between product design, UX design, and UI design (14:46)What makes for a good design program (18:05)Things you should never say to a designer (23:02)Why both design and copy are integrated systems (27:25)The distrust of creatives causing them to relentlessly justify their work (29:06)What designers should do to find inspiration (34:59)Why “boring” industries can make for more exciting work (35:49)The negative impact of design bootcamps are having on the industry (36:19)The biggest problem with swipe files (37:09)The “Great Blanding” in design and the seeping of the millennial aesthetic into SaaS (38:00)Why everyone hates marketers, according to Victoria (41:05)Why the most valuable designers, creatives, and analysts get paid for how they think (42:17)Connect with TommyWebsiteTwitterConnect with the HostsVictoria Gamlen on LinkedInJeff Sirkin on LinkedIn

We dig into the details from Victoria’s 40-page piece on her approach to positioning. We get into her three components of effective positioning, why you don’t choose your positioning, and why point of view (POV) rules all. Here are a few other topics discussed on this episode of the Sirkin Research Podcast:How Victoria first got into positioning from writing copy (1:59)Why most people writing website copy are also doing positioning (4:14)Why there is no such thing as a marketing or positioning expert (9:39)Why “we’re the best” is not positioning (11:07)The importance of clearly defining terms (12:38)Why boring marketing and gated content are not the problems holding B2B marketers back (14:18)Attribution isn’t broken, it was built this way (15:24)Why you don’t choose your positioning as a company (19:56)The fundamental questions a company needs to answer about their business to inform their positioning (22:48)Why Victoria didn’t touch on strategic narratives or brand stories in her piece (25:11)Why effective positioning requires a compelling point of view (29:37)The importance of defining what not to say when it comes to your messaging (37:08)Why effective positioning isn’t a linear process and can’t be templated (43:07)The risks of category creation and how to do it right (44:54)Why StoryBrand is not effective for B2B marketers (50:13)Why it’s important that whoever does your positioning has written copy plus who to be wary of taking marketing and positioning advice from (55:00)Resources mentioned in episode:The Three Components of Effective B2B PositioningThe Irreconcilable Differences Between B2B and B2C MarketingConnect with the hosts:Victoria Gamlen on LinkedInJeff Sirkin on LinkedIn

Long Story Short is now the Sirkin Research Podcast. Jeff introduces Victoria Gamlen as permanent co-host of the show going forward. Victoria turns the tables and interviews Jeff about his career - what led to the founding of Sirkin Research, their positioning, and breakdowns of a few case studies. Here are a few other topics discussed: What is demand research and how is it different from market research? (20:58) How to create content for the entire customer journey from original research (25:55) Why 80% of the business value comes from the last mile of getting to know your buyers (14:01) How a subtle change in product name led to a 5x increase in natural search traffic and a $200M exit for FamilyWize (12:37) How Sirkin Research helped Trustpilot prove their value proposition and reach IPO (44:50) Crafting targeted messaging to multiple personas and buyer roles (32:36) Connect with the hosts:Victoria Gamlen on LinkedInJeff Sirkin on LinkedIn

MJ Smith is the Vice President of Marketing at CoLab Software, a startup focused on helping mechanical engineers collaborate and make decisions faster. Before CoLab, MJ led sales and marketing at Refine Labs, where she worked with more than 50 B2B software startups. She also spent 6 years working at Halma plc, a group of mid-sized manufacturing businesses focused on medical, environmental, and safety technology. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:Why product marketing is the first priority for an organization’s first marketing leaderFocusing on positioning and messaging before scaling through demand genThe importance of buyer research, especially when you aren’t in your own ICPThe 3 types of insights MJ looks for in doing customer researchThe importance of understanding the critical pain points specific to the buyer roleLeveraging quantitative research and product analytics for contentHow demystifying finance made MJ a better marketing leader and executiveWhy having a podcast as a marketing strategy might be overrated

Matt Malanga is the Chief Marketing Officer at JW Player, the video platform for video-driven companies. Matt is a full-stack, hands-on CMO who is well-versed in disrupting industries, building winning cultures, and driving top-line growth. He has played a key marketing leadership role in five startups across SaaS and Fintech space - each getting to a successful exit either through an acquisition or IPO. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:Leveraging original research to create content and drive demandAligning your internal stakeholders around what matters most to your buyersHow to connect your ICP to your brand to drive awareness and relevanceThe importance of identifying the right survey audience and why it’s like a bullseyeHow to effectively launch a new brand in a competitive marketWhy quantifying buyer insights is the key to gaining alignment from your GTM teamThe importance of building a bridge to finance as a marketing leaderHow Sirkin Research’s work differs from Gartner and ForresterConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteLinkedIn

Victoria Gamlen is a brand strategist and consultant who establishes positioning, develops messaging, and builds verbal identities for B2B and B2C brands. She is also a fractional head of marketing and creative director across multiple industries. Off of LinkedIn, Victoria owns a cleaning business and is an accomplished photographer. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:How B2B marketing is not broken — it was built this wayThe false enemies B2B marketers create and what the real one has always beenHow B2B SaaS defied business fundamentals, and how things look in the current economic climateThe impact of Venture Capital funding and business valuations on B2B marketingThe key to developing effective marketing and copy: making yourself a localThe important distinction between capturing and earning attentionWhy ‘growth at all costs’ never worked, the consequences were just delayedThe state of content on LinkedIn and Victoria’s strategy for how to winWhy creativity might be the most valuable skill in technical fields, and vice-versaWhy personal branding is overrated Resources:B2B SaaS Marketing Isn't Broken, It Was Built This Way: Part 1B2B SaaS Marketing Isn't Broken, It Was Built This Way: Part 2In Defense of Corporate JargonThe Irreconcilable Differences Between B2B and B2C Marketing"Not Boring" Isn't a POV and the Issues with "Pick an Enemy" PositioningConnect with Victoria:LinkedInBlog - In the GrayConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteLinkedIn

Eric Stockton is the Vice President of Demand Generation at SharpSpring from Constant Contact. He is an executive with proven leadership in running sales teams and creating marketing alignment within organizations, Eric specializes in creating revenue and driving pipeline for B2B, SAAS, and eCommerce. At Constant Contact, Eric focuses daily on the areas of Growth, DemandGen, Publishing and Content to help streamline processes, improve output and motivate the team to excel. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short: How to modernize a legacy B2B marketing motion The value of amplifying content to prospects in the channels they’re already using How to create new marketing motions that align with how prospects want to buy Why you should set effective expectations with leadership — and how to do it How to ensure marketing is seen as a revenue engine The power of a test and learn approach  Resources:Don’t Make Me Think by Steve KrugConnect with Eric: LinkedInConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

April Dunford is a consultant and author who helps companies make complicated products easy for customers to understand and love. She is a globally recognized expert in Positioning, having launched 16 products across her 25-year career running marketing, product and sales teams at a series of successful startups. She is the author of the best-selling book Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get it, Buy it, Love it. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short: April’s detailed product positioning framework  The root cause of most weak positioning — and how to fix it How positioning is different from messaging and branding The misalignment that occurs across marketing, sales, and product teams within companies — and the issues that causes for buyers How to paint your product in the right light The dominant emotion for B2B buyers (and how to tap into it) Resources:April's WebsiteObviously Awesome by April DunfordThe Challenger Sale by Brent Adamson and Matthew DixonThe Challenger Customer by Brent Adamson, Pat Spenner, Nick Toman, and Matthew DixonThe Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve BlankPositioning by Al Ries and Jack TroutLenny’s NewsletterLenny’s PodcastConnect with April: TwitterLinkedInConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Amanda Natividad is the Vice President of Marketing for audience research startup, SparkToro. In her career, she has managed B2B and B2C marketing teams across SaaS, Consumer Packaged Goods, and on the agency side. Amanda created Fitbit’s B2B content program and helped build their B2B marketing team. She is also a contributor for Adweek, a former journalist, and for good measure, she’s also a Le Cordon Bleu-trained chef. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  Amanda’s Zero Click Content framework and how you can put it in place today How to leverage different use cases for audience research Why you need to lead with your best stuff and optimize for impressions How the content marketing game has changed The critical mindset shift for companies to win in content marketing today How the 3-person team at SparkToro can operate like a team of 10 Resources:Lost and Founder by Rand FishkinOut on the Wire by Jessica AbelNonviolent Communication by Marshall RosenburgDoing Content Right by Steph SmithLanding Page Copywriting Mastery by Jeremy MoserSwipe FilesConnect with Amanda: TwitterLinkedInConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Victoria Sakal leads the development and delivery of The Vault by Refine Labs. As the world's first intellectual capital warehouse, The Vault gives members exclusive access to industry-leading research, data, insights, and validated strategies for manufacturing revenue. With a background in marketing, brand strategy, and commercial strategy, Victoria leads growth strategy, covering product, GTM, and product marketing for The Vault in preparation for commercial launch later this year. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  The levels of customer awareness and why they’re important How to leverage data to create hypotheses to test in the market Getting into the minds of your customers The value The Vault will bring to Refine Labs Victoria’s approach to applying research and measurement to optimize marketing What is working in real-time across dozens of SaaS clients The key metrics that indicate the impact of your brand Resources:Victoria's list of resourcesThe Marketing Book PodcastConnect with Victoria: LinkedInConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Zoё Hartsfield got her start in SaaS sales 3 years ago as an SDR and pivoted into B2B marketing. She is currently the head of Community over at Spekit. In her spare time, Zoё consults with other B2B companies on personal brand, social selling, and community initiatives. She is passionate about helping others in the SaaS community and is an advocate for mental health. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  Why it’s important to normalize talking about money How not talking about money has held individuals down from earning what they’re worth Steps you can take today to ensure you are being fairly compensated for your work How our culture of not talking about money has only served companies, not employees The tools you should use for salary research How to measure the impact of community marketing Why it’s critical to translate customer language into marketing content The importance of qualitative data to provide context that quantitative data can’t show How finding why people stay is just as important as finding why people buy Connect with Zoё: LinkedInTwitterTiktokConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Cory Young is the founder and CEO of BCC Interactive, a Digital Marketing Agency based in Philadelphia. After managing marketing teams at Fortune 50 companies at Comcast and Campbell's Soup, Cory channeled his passion and experience in a direction that could help small and mid-sized businesses increase their visibility & revenue. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  Why you need to make your content findable—and how to do it  How SEO has evolved over time Why there will always be a need to help marketers get their content in front of their target audience What it’s like to start a company as a side hustle before making the full-time leap Cory’s journey to go out on his own The specific kinds of content companies should be creating today Resources:Seth Godin Crushing It - Gary VaynerchukLearningseo.ioConnect with Cory:LinkedInInstagramTiktokTwitterBCC InteractiveConnect with Jeff:LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Liam Moroney is the founder of Suas Marketing, a demand generation consulting firm. He has more than 12 years of experience as a marketing leader in the B2B SaaS tech industry, most recently as the SVP of Revenue Marketing at Notarize. Liam is also the host of the Marketing Revisited podcast. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  The difference between demand capture and demand generation How to develop separate strategies and measurements for demand creation and demand capture  Ways to put your customer at the center of your marketing How to break away from stale marketing playbooks Why you shouldn’t distribute the same piece of content across every channel Resources:Oglivy on Advertising by David OgilvyHey Whipple, Squeeze This by Luke SullivanConnect with Liam:LinkedInConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Why You Need Customer Research with Ryan Paul GibsonRyan Paul Gibson is the Founder and CEO at Content Lift, where he helps marketers do customer research. In his career, he has interviewed over 1,600 people and accrued 20 years of marketing miles. Ryan even took a small detour in his career, working for CBC as a TV & Radio reporter - and has produced short films and documentaries. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  Common signs that your organization needs research How customer research will tangibly impact your business growth Tactics you can use today to get started with customer research How to understand the pain points and priorities of your target market The dangers of being uncertain about your ideal customer Resources:How to Win podcastNudge podcastConnect with Ryan:LinkedInConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Kaylee Edmondson is the Director of Demand Gen at Brightwheel—the #1 platform for early education. She was formerly the first Director of Demand Gen at Chili Piper. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  The limits and benefits of using attribution data Why marketers shouldn’t be 100% reliant on attribution The reason companies should question what they see in their attribution data How to get close to, and connect with, your customers Best practices for customer calls—and 6 questions to ask How to effectively communicate the value of marketing Resources:Morning BrewMarketing BrewRetail BrewThe SkimmChris WalkerDave GerhardtNo Rules Rules by Reed Hastings and Erin MeyerConnect with Kaylee:LinkedInTwitterConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Evan Patterson is the Head of Content & Community at trender.ai. Outside of that, he is a brand ambassador for a variety of B2B brands, a content creator, podcast host, and an advisor for other startups like Chili Piper and scaleMatters. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:  What it means to build in public as a startup Why B2B marketers need to lean in more heavily to the untapped value of influencer marketing The parallels between personal branding and marketing a startup company  Making social selling easier, more fun, and more approachable. Refining your tone and messaging through experience, realtime feedback, and conversations with customers  Creating a startup culture that is collaborative and fosters active listening Resources:Zoë HartsfieldJorge SotoMeryoli AriasViolating Community Guidelines: Brand ContentViolating Community Guidelines: LinkedIn InfluencersThe Financial DietThe Bald and the Beautiful PodcastConnect with Evan:Evan’s LinktreeConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Katelyn Bourgoin is a 4x founder turned growth strategist and trainer. She understands the challenges business leaders face because she’s been there herself. With operational experience spanning the marketing, tech, and hospitality sectors, Katelyn has been named as an influential entrepreneur by Forbes magazine and featured in Inc., HuffPost, Bustle, CBC, CTV, Global TV and more. Katelyn is recognized as one of the "top 20 wonder women of SaaS marketing and growth” by SaaStock. Katelyn’s past clients include high-growth tech startups, SMBs, business support organizations, and Fortune 500 companies like Target and Holiday Inn. She has delivered in-person and online training with prestigious accelerators and incubators worldwide. Today Katelyn helps frustrated founders, marketers, and salespeople to focus on what really matters—their customers. After all, whoever gets closer to the customer wins. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:   Using the principles of buyer psychology to get into the minds of your customers Why your customer’s perspective is your most valuable asset The power of understanding your customers’ decision-making process - and why it’s essential for marketers The best tactics to create messaging that resonates every single time How Barnum Statements are a marketer’s secret weapon, and how to use them effectively Why B2B purchases are MORE emotional than B2C purchases  Resources:Competing Against Luck - Clayton ChristensenDemand-Side Sales 101 - Bob MoestaWhen Coffee and Kale Compete - Alan KlementClarity Call CheatsheetsWhy We Buy NewsletterThe Choice Factory - Richard ShottonWhat Your Customer Wants and Can't Tell You - Melina PalmerAlchemy - Rory SutherlandNudge - Phill AgnewConnect with Katelyn:CustomerCampLinkedInTwitterConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn

Phoebe Bain founded Marketing Brew, a Morning Brew vertical covering the most important news in the marketing industry, in 2020. The vertical has since expanded into original reporting and beyond the newsletter. She's now one of five reporters the Brew has since added to the fold, and primarily covers social media and influencer marketing. Before rolling out Marketing Brew, Phoebe wrote for Social Media Today under Industry Dive and worked on the social media editing desk for Business Insider. Here are a few of the topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Long Story Short:   How to effectively keep your finger on the pulse of your industry Phoebe’s meta view of marketing and advertising The current, biggest trends of the marketing industry Changes in social media, engagement, and the world of influencer marketing The benefits of talking to, and learning from, industry experts Why authentic marketing strategies resonate better with audiences The difference between writing and reporting  Resources:Maybe Baby - Haley NahmanMorning BrewMarketing BrewGarbage DayTrick Mirror - Jia TolentinoConnect with Phoebe:LinkedInTwitterInstagramConnect with the Host:Jeff Sirkin on LinkedInConnect with Sirkin Research:WebsiteTwitterInstagramLinkedIn