André 3000 Interview & Surprise Newsroom Performance!
Update: 2024-12-21
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After a wide-ranging conversation, the rapper-turned-flutist improvised with his band in the newsroom of The New York Times.Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything
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Transcript
00:00:00
- Hey, it's John Chase.
00:00:01
- And Mario Ijara.
00:00:02
- From WireCutter, the product recommendation service
00:00:05
from the New York Times,
00:00:06
Mario, it is gift giving time.
00:00:08
- John, we have over 40 gift guides,
00:00:10
like gifts for people who have everything.
00:00:13
On that list, I particularly love the self-watering planter.
00:00:18
- I struggle to keep plants alive,
00:00:20
so this is like a perfect solution.
00:00:22
Check out all of WireCutter's gift recommendations
00:00:24
for yourself and everyone else at nytimes.com/holidayguide.
00:00:29
(upbeat music)
00:00:32
- All right, we're cooking.
00:00:53
- Yeah, we're cooking.
00:00:54
- We're cooking.
00:00:55
- What's up everybody, welcome to PopCast,
00:00:56
your revolt sound of weekly music.
00:01:00
What the hell am I talking about?
00:01:01
- Take it from time. - Sorry.
00:01:02
- You need an intro.
00:01:03
- This is why I eat.
00:01:06
(upbeat music)
00:01:09
- Hello everyone, and welcome to PopCast,
00:01:17
your revolt sound of music music criticism.
00:01:19
I'm John Karamaka, the critic of the New York Times.
00:01:21
- I'm Joe Kaskareli, I'm a reporter at The New York Times.
00:01:24
And I am Andre 3000 Benjamin, I am a guest on the podcast,
00:01:29
The Pop podcast.
00:01:31
- And a very welcome guest at that.
00:01:33
- Well thank you so much for being here.
00:01:34
- Thank you so much for being here.
00:01:35
- We have so many things that we want to talk to you about.
00:01:39
First of all, and also there are things
00:01:41
that we want to experiment about with you.
00:01:43
- Let's go.
00:01:44
- But we're going to walk in that direction,
00:01:46
perhaps literally at some point during the day.
00:01:49
Okay, we are in a moment right now,
00:01:51
where your latest album, New Blue Sun, nominated for three Grammys.
00:01:56
And we spoke on Grammy nomination today.
00:02:00
We had that conversation.
00:02:01
I want to refer people to that conversation,
00:02:03
they can get all the details from that.
00:02:05
But when we hung up the phone,
00:02:07
I realized there were some things I hadn't asked you.
00:02:09
And I want to open with them, okay?
00:02:11
- All right, all right, cool.
00:02:13
In 2004, you won album of the year at The Grammys.
00:02:18
♪ Speed about to love you, love us ♪
00:02:21
♪ I can't get you dirty, don't you forget to step up ♪
00:02:26
- We love y'all, thank you very much,
00:02:28
Southern Playlist to Cal Light Music.
00:02:31
Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
00:02:33
You smell them.
00:02:35
- And I wonder if you can take me through some memories
00:02:37
of what that experience was like.
00:02:40
We really talked about the present,
00:02:41
but we didn't really talk about
00:02:42
what was going on during that moment.
00:02:44
Where was your head like even before they announced it?
00:02:47
- Honestly, I can't remember.
00:02:50
One thing that was probably most memorable,
00:02:53
my son was in the audience.
00:02:56
He was there, he was a kid watching.
00:02:59
And I just remember him, he saw 50 cent.
00:03:02
And he was like, that's 50 cent.
00:03:05
(laughing)
00:03:07
It was like a super year.
00:03:08
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:09
I remember that, 'cause he had this little head gear on him.
00:03:13
He was chilling.
00:03:14
- Were you sort of, by that stage in the outcast,
00:03:17
a little bit maybe even fatigued of awards
00:03:20
and award presentations?
00:03:22
- Oh, no, not at all, I don't get fatigued.
00:03:25
No, no, not at all.
00:03:27
The award thing is kind of like behind the scenes,
00:03:32
like a vapor of what's going on.
00:03:36
Like if you're focused on what you're doing,
00:03:38
like we in the studio, we touring.
00:03:42
And it's just a thing on the outtener area at that point.
00:03:46
Like, okay, I gotta go to this award show.
00:03:48
You probably just came off a show that night before, so.
00:03:51
Yeah, it's just another awesome thing happening.
00:03:56
- You also, oh man.
00:03:58
- You also, in my mind, one of the most memorable awards,
00:04:01
award show speeches in memory, which is the source awards.
00:04:05
- But it's like this, though.
00:04:07
I'm tired of folks, you know what I'm saying?
00:04:09
Closed mind that folks, you know what I'm saying?
00:04:12
It's like we got a demo tape on the body going to hear,
00:04:15
but it's like, did the style got something to say?
00:04:16
That's all I got to say.
00:04:17
- I was going to say the whole story.
00:04:19
- Yeah, it starts at the source awards.
00:04:21
And I sort of wonder, you know,
00:04:23
there's a number of years in between
00:04:24
that source awards win and the Grammy win.
00:04:27
A tremendous amount of change for you guys during that time window.
00:04:30
But I wonder if back in that moment,
00:04:33
if you were even thinking about the relationship
00:04:35
between those two things,
00:04:36
since I will never forget you standing up on the podium
00:04:40
and saying the South got something to say.
00:04:42
And how important that was to say on that stage,
00:04:44
in that year to that crowd.
00:04:47
- Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like when you end it,
00:04:50
you end it and you're not watching yourself end it.
00:04:53
Like now, in hindsight, I can look back at it.
00:04:55
And it's become this kind of thing
00:04:57
that people reference a lot.
00:04:59
But back then, it was, it was just a response
00:05:03
to what was happening at the time.
00:05:05
And I didn't know what it would be, you know,
00:05:08
me and the whole crew were there.
00:05:09
And we know how hard we worked.
00:05:11
We know how into it, you know, what we were doing.
00:05:16
And so, you know, when we feel slightly not disrespected,
00:05:22
but kind of unconsidered more than anything,
00:05:28
when we felt unconsidered and that didn't feel good to me.
00:05:32
And that's just what came to mind.
00:05:35
So I said it, right, then and there.
00:05:38
I was very nervous, you know, I'm not an outward speaker
00:05:43
in that way.
00:05:44
So especially when this was early times in Outcast,
00:05:46
like if you watch early Outcast interviews,
00:05:49
like Big Boy is the more outgoing spoken, you know,
00:05:53
grew up in a big family.
00:05:55
Yeah, and I'm the only child situation.
00:05:59
So it wouldn't like introverted.
00:06:01
- Yeah, yeah.
00:06:01
So if you watch early Outcast interviews,
00:06:03
like I hardly ever talked.
00:06:05
So for me to even go on stage to say that,
00:06:07
I was pretty, pretty upset in a way, yeah.
00:06:10
- And it was this moment where you guys were taking down
00:06:12
the door and announcing your own arrival.
00:06:15
And then as John said years later,
00:06:17
you're on a different stage,
00:06:18
but maybe even a bigger stage in some way,
00:06:21
winning album of the year, the last rap group,
00:06:24
the last rap album to win, if you want to call it,
00:06:27
that's the last album from hip hop performers, yeah.
00:06:31
To come out, the speaker box and love below.
00:06:34
And now you're back nominated for album of the year
00:06:38
with something that might equally feel like a provocation
00:06:42
to say, you know, I'm busing down a different door
00:06:45
with a nonverbal, experimental...
00:06:50
- Yeah, it's interesting, man.
00:06:51
- Like, what would the South got something to say
00:06:55
of now?
00:06:56
- Yeah, what do you have on stage inside?
00:06:58
- What are you screaming if Nubaloo Sun
00:07:00
takes the biggest prize of the night
00:07:01
over some of the biggest pop stars on earth?
00:07:04
- Man, I try not to think about winning.
00:07:08
So I don't know, I haven't prepared a speech
00:07:11
and any kind of way.
00:07:13
I'm honestly, and I know people say it all the time,
00:07:17
that, man, I'm just happy to be nominated.
00:07:19
And sometimes that's just bullsh*tching, you know,
00:07:21
you say that, I'm happy to be nominated.
00:07:22
Now you want to win, of course you want to win.
00:07:25
But in this category, and this time,
00:07:27
I'm really happy that we're just nominated
00:07:31
because just the nomination says a lot,
00:07:34
like, I'm not really expecting to win in that way.
00:07:38
If we want, like, I like to think of myself
00:07:41
outside of the situation, like if I had nothing to do
00:07:44
with Nubaloo Sun and I'm not in that situation,
00:07:46
I know nothing about the album and I'm a voter,
00:07:49
I would totally vote for Nubaloo Sun.
00:07:50
- Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:07:52
I ain't going to even lie, you know what I mean?
00:07:54
- You sit down and do your homework and you're like,
00:07:55
okay, let's be honest, it's Cowboy Carter, you're like,
00:07:57
"Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it."
00:07:59
And those are like family and homies.
00:08:01
Like, I know a lot of these people,
00:08:02
like these are like very known pop stars and friends,
00:08:06
but for Nubaloo Sun to be nominated
00:08:08
and for what it is, for what it stands for,
00:08:11
for what it means, I would definitely vote for it, you know?
00:08:16
- 'Cause it's the outsider pick and you're drawing something.
00:08:18
- It's the outsider pick and it's just like,
00:08:21
I don't know, it's like, it gives, I don't know it.
00:08:24
I don't want to say it, I don't want to do it.
00:08:25
- And also, Derek said, look, if I could take
00:08:27
a critical step back, right?
00:08:29
One thing that I think recurs at the Grammys every year
00:08:32
is, I think especially with the older voters
00:08:35
as a word, this tension between like a very produced music,
00:08:39
very, you know, 10 songwriter type music
00:08:42
and quote unquote, real music.
00:08:44
Look, in this house, all these music, yeah.
00:08:47
- In this house, but I know that the way we view music
00:08:49
is not how, maybe how Grammys voters.
00:08:51
- And the rank and file Grammys voters
00:08:54
seems to like instruments.
00:08:56
- Yes, so my take on it is, this could be very appealing
00:09:01
to a Grammy voters who want to know what the instruments are
00:09:06
and want to see people playing the instruments.
00:09:08
- Yeah, it seems like a real positive.
00:09:10
- Yeah, like I said before, I would totally vote for it.
00:09:14
Have you negotiated it all playing on the show?
00:09:16
Like are you guys doing it?
00:09:17
- We're trying, we're going to speak to the Grammy committee
00:09:20
this week to see if they let us play.
00:09:23
And I think it would be, once again,
00:09:25
another awesome choice if they did.
00:09:27
- If they let you blow a couple of minds there.
00:09:30
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like Beyonce.
00:09:32
- Yeah, like I just feel like, I always think like,
00:09:35
if I'm a kid sitting at home watching some, you know,
00:09:38
that's how I think about it, like, what would I remember?
00:09:42
Like, man, I was 10 and as these doves that came on
00:09:45
and they were making these sounds.
00:09:47
- I mean, that's literally what I mean.
00:09:48
- Like with bombs over Baghdad.
00:09:50
Like, not like, that's what I'm saying, that's all.
00:09:52
- Like, oh, that's how I'm saying that, like, kid.
00:09:55
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:56
- Damn, Florida being like, what are these sounds?
00:10:00
- Let's go.
00:10:01
- If they let us perform, yeah, we're gonna show up.
00:10:06
- And you would do also fully improvise.
00:10:08
Like, that's the goal would be to just do the things
00:10:10
that you would do in all the road.
00:10:11
- That's staying true to what we're doing.
00:10:13
Like, what is that way?
00:10:15
- What is the importance of improvisation for you,
00:10:18
someone who's career, you know, I think probably early on
00:10:22
when you started rapping, there was an improv element
00:10:25
to what you were doing.
00:10:25
- No, not really.
00:10:27
When you're writing, of course, you're trying out
00:10:28
a lot of different stuff in your head to compose your verse.
00:10:33
I've never been a rap freestyle in that way, lay.
00:10:38
I mean, I'd never been a big drinker,
00:10:41
but a lot of times people get drunk and get the freestyle.
00:10:45
I've never been a great freestyle
00:10:46
and I think because I think too much, you know,
00:10:49
too many things come to me and I can't make them fall in line.
00:10:54
Like, I don't have that gift in a lot of rap artists to do.
00:10:58
I'm more of a writer.
00:11:01
I'm a writer, a constructor, composer in that way.
00:11:04
For this, it is the complete opposite
00:11:07
of what I've done before.
00:11:09
So there's a freedom that I'm feeling.
00:11:11
And it's more, instead of just improv,
00:11:13
like, hey, let's get out here and improv.
00:11:15
So it's more trusting the space, trusting my bandmates,
00:11:20
trusting the room, trusting what I have to give on that day.
00:11:27
And the reward for that trust is a lot greater
00:11:32
sometimes than what you've constructed.
00:11:37
So it's important for me to kind of see myself free,
00:11:42
you know, and I think that's what a lot of people get out
00:11:44
of what we're doing when they come to the show.
00:11:47
Like, you know, we've talked to people after the show,
00:11:50
talked to fans, you'd be surprised at how some people react,
00:11:54
some people cry, some people fall out,
00:11:57
some people get up and dance,
00:11:58
some people get to fight and cry.
00:12:00
Like, it's everything.
00:12:01
- Yeah, you think they're rumble?
00:12:02
- Yes, yes, yes, we start at, I actually have, at Flockknaw.
00:12:06
- That makes sense.
00:12:08
- Yeah.
00:12:09
- No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:12:10
No, no, they didn't fight at Flockknaw,
00:12:11
they started a march pit.
00:12:13
(audience laughing)
00:12:16
- And the day only gave us like 30 minutes to perform at Flockknaw,
00:12:23
but after the third minutes of the show,
00:12:25
while I was telling the kids,
00:12:26
"Hey, I'm sorry, we got to go."
00:12:27
And they were like, "No, that's like, you know,
00:12:29
"so they were witted, they were totally witted."
00:12:31
I think some kid like about it, what we're doing.
00:12:36
Did I think the youth responds to?
00:12:39
- Tapping into a child.
00:12:40
- Yes, yes, yes, it's something about it.
00:12:43
- Do you talk about yourself as a writer, as a rapper?
00:12:46
When you see a more new school musician,
00:12:49
especially in Atlanta, I know you've worked
00:12:51
with Future over the years.
00:12:52
He comes out of the same musical tradition
00:12:55
that you do, but took a different path.
00:12:57
When you see them freestyling everything in the moment
00:13:01
on the mic, never writing a lyric down, punching in.
00:13:04
Like, does that tap into something similar?
00:13:07
- It blows my mind because I'm from an era
00:13:10
where we wrote versus, like, we're from what people call
00:13:15
the golden air, which I think every generation thinks
00:13:19
their air is the golden air.
00:13:20
But when it comes to rap, like, you got to think,
00:13:24
when we came up, it was red, man, it was gnaw,
00:13:26
it was Wu Tang, it was tribe, soul's mischief.
00:13:30
These were rappers, like, it was, like, and clarity
00:13:34
and making people know what you're saying
00:13:38
was really important.
00:13:39
And we constructed versus, like, I can't speak for anybody else,
00:13:42
but I've always written verses, and I said them
00:13:45
from start to finish.
00:13:46
Like, punching in wasn't even a thing.
00:13:48
Like, I didn't even know how to punch in.
00:13:50
That was like a studio technique that I only knew
00:13:53
that's, like, slick written use, 'cause he overlaid.
00:13:55
- To fix stuff for-- - Well, not even fix.
00:13:57
He used it as a actual art experience.
00:13:59
- Like a narrative tool, almost, like, counter-bawning.
00:14:01
So, to blend in and over.
00:14:04
Yeah, he used it in a creative way.
00:14:07
But for me, it was really important for me to save my verse
00:14:09
from start to finish and I wrote it in that way.
00:14:13
This new generation, they blew my mind
00:14:14
'cause I've been in sessions where they'll freestyle a line
00:14:20
and go back, tack it on, tack it on, tack it on, tack it on.
00:14:24
Engineer may take one part and make it the core.
00:14:26
And then you got a song.
00:14:28
To me, that's f***ing awesome.
00:14:29
You know what I mean?
00:14:30
Like, I'm always interested in everybody's process
00:14:33
on how to do it because it opens up a new way
00:14:37
and it opens up a new sound because you do it that way, you know?
00:14:40
So, I'm always interested in somebody like,
00:14:43
how you do it, you know?
00:14:45
- What's fascinating to me is I think a lot of them,
00:14:47
a lot of innovation, especially in Atlanta,
00:14:49
if we're really gonna rewind it and take it back.
00:14:52
It goes back to Speaker Box and Love Below
00:14:54
and a lot of the choices that you made on that album.
00:14:57
The freedom of that album, I think,
00:14:59
set a lot of people in motion to think that they didn't
00:15:02
necessarily need to lead with bars as it were.
00:15:05
They could lead potentially with melody.
00:15:07
And then when you add what Kanye was doing,
00:15:09
when you add what Frel ended up doing,
00:15:12
all of a sudden, here are the sort of North stars
00:15:15
of the genre all saying, hey,
00:15:18
you know what you don't actually have to do
00:15:19
is have the tightest 16,
00:15:23
which everybody was in a tight 16 competition in the '90s.
00:15:26
You know, what you said about punching in,
00:15:28
the other person who said that to me,
00:15:29
exactly almost how you phrased it was button B.
00:15:31
It was like, he's like, if I had to punch in, I failed.
00:15:36
Yeah, yeah, you felt kind of like a cheater.
00:15:39
Right, exactly.
00:15:40
I had to punch in.
00:15:41
Right.
00:15:42
Yeah, that was a different time.
00:15:43
And like, I didn't even want to change my curse words.
00:15:45
Like when the label would like,
00:15:46
you got to go in and punch in.
00:15:47
I was like, nah, I ain't changed.
00:15:48
To do a clean version.
00:15:49
I was like clean version.
00:15:50
And that, but y'all, but it just beat for the song.
00:15:53
Like, do you scratch on it or something?
00:15:55
Yeah, man.
00:15:56
So it was a different time, different process.
00:15:58
But yeah, I can say like, all the artists behind us,
00:16:03
if anyone learned from what we're doing,
00:16:05
it's because I had great people in front of me.
00:16:08
And that's every generation.
00:16:10
Like, you can always tie it back to their responding
00:16:13
or being inspired by the people that came before them.
00:16:16
Right.
00:16:17
Either rejecting or embracing it sometime.
00:16:18
Yes, yes, yes, yep, yep.
00:16:20
And it happens that way.
00:16:22
So I only started doing all types of music
00:16:24
because the people I listened to,
00:16:26
they kind of did all types of music, you know?
00:16:28
And I felt like, well, I should try it.
00:16:31
And that way, you know, if, you know,
00:16:33
Prince is doing a ballot and then he's doing kind of,
00:16:35
like this rock kind of hillbilly funk-billy song.
00:16:39
And then there's funk song.
00:16:41
And you know, then he's doing, yeah, it's, to me,
00:16:46
it was like, try everything.
00:16:48
Why not?
00:16:49
And so for me, a slide, slide did the same thing.
00:16:53
So for me, it was George, like these are my heroes, you know?
00:16:58
So you always, always kind of in the back of my mind,
00:17:02
I was trying to, even without cash,
00:17:05
I was trying to figure out like, what's the, like,
00:17:08
what's a rap punk funk hybrid?
00:17:12
It's almost like, throw everything you love into a pot.
00:17:16
And then see, see what it is.
00:17:17
And even make this exercise, I would do it,
00:17:20
is make fake hybrid groups.
00:17:23
Like what would Jimi Hendrix sound like if he was in a rap?
00:17:27
Or, you know, what would bad brain sound like if they were a rap, you know?
00:17:31
So it's almost like you make these kind of false hybrids.
00:17:37
And then if you even get close to what you were trying to do,
00:17:40
you're on to something different, you know, a lot of times.
00:17:44
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00:18:45
This is maybe the sixth time we've spoken over the years.
00:18:49
And before you came in today, I went back and reread everything we've done.
00:18:55
So this goes back to the late '90s.
00:18:57
I pulled a couple quotes from interviews from the Stankonia era and from the Speaker Box
00:19:03
era, but I want to underline one detail that I could not have possibly remembered without
00:19:08
going back to reread it, which is in every article that I've written in which I spent
00:19:12
time with you, as opposed to being on the phone.
00:19:14
But any time I spend time with you, you told me that you were learning an instrument.
00:19:19
And so we're going back to...
00:19:21
You saw the breadcrumbs.
00:19:22
Yeah.
00:19:23
So if I'm going back to at least, I would say 2000 or 2001 maybe.
00:19:27
So in one story, you talk about learning guitar.
00:19:31
In another story, you talk about learning guitar, saxophone, and clarinet.
00:19:36
So we're 20 years of wind instruments.
00:19:39
20 years.
00:19:40
People are looking like this is two years, three years.
00:19:43
But this has been something you've been shipping away at or trying to find a landing strip
00:19:48
on for two decades at this point.
00:19:52
Yeah.
00:19:53
It's always been sound, trying exploration, trying to see what I can get out of the instruments.
00:20:00
And almost like a cheat man's vert, because I never was a great student of any of them.
00:20:06
So when I said I was learning them, I was interested in them and I would pick them up.
00:20:10
Maybe try, like when I first got a guitar, like I was like really into a West Montgomery.
00:20:24
So I was like, I just learned a few West Montgomery chords and then I had to go on tour.
00:20:28
So it was like, I never kept up anything.
00:20:31
So I would take bits and pieces of things and make it into something.
00:20:35
So Beatles songs you would learn, some chords from West Montgomery and Beatles became Hayah.
00:20:42
It's kind of like, you played that guitar on that record.
00:20:45
Yeah.
00:20:46
But these were kind of like my first chords, like I was in guitar setting and this kid comes
00:20:50
up and he says, oh man, Hayah was the first song I ever learned.
00:20:55
My first chord is something like that and I was like me too.
00:21:00
So yeah, for me, it's about, it's more important to be exciting.
00:21:05
I'm excited about what you're doing.
00:21:06
And even when you're at master level, I think you should always find a way to be excited
00:21:10
about it.
00:21:11
Because I think people can feel when you're kind of just going through a flow and a loss.
00:21:16
And also, to me, excitement is really important.
00:21:19
So a lot of times when I'm learning or discovering these sounds or instruments, I'm actually
00:21:24
using the material of excitement to push it through, you know.
00:21:28
That's as people are healing.
00:21:29
You can't fake excitement as there's no way you can fake it.
00:21:32
And you've gotten some, I'd say you've gotten some sh*t for saying that you feel like rap
00:21:37
is a young man's game, but I think there's certain genres and certain genres that you connect
00:21:43
to, you talk about punk, you talk about rap music, like those come from that energy of discovery
00:21:49
and youth and it doesn't mean you can't make good punk music or good rap music as a grown
00:21:54
person.
00:21:55
Sure.
00:21:56
To you, it like, talk a little bit about why you feel like that is so inextricable from
00:22:01
youth.
00:22:02
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I never want to uninspire anybody or have some
00:22:09
negative kind of tension because we're all out here trying stuff, you know.
00:22:14
And I still, at 49, you know, sometimes I still be rapping, you know, I try.
00:22:19
So it's not a, I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't say it's a young man's sport per se, but what
00:22:27
I'm attracted to and hip-hop, what I'm attracted to in punk music, even rock and roll is this
00:22:32
kind of unabashed, we're stupid enough to try anything energy, you know.
00:22:40
And I think it may be started in the 50s when pop music, when kids first started making
00:22:45
their own music.
00:22:46
I think that's a gift that rap, pop music, punk, rock and roll is the gift that we get, you
00:22:56
know, and it's no one else can reproduce that.
00:22:59
And I think it has a window, just like if you're putting together a recipe, some recipes
00:23:07
call for fresh ingredients.
00:23:09
The best way to make that recipe is using fresh ingredients, yes, you can use canned vegetables
00:23:18
in that.
00:23:19
But it'll be a good dish, but it's different.
00:23:22
And so what you hear me say is, as a fan, like I don't sit around and listen to older rap
00:23:28
music, I just don't, not that it's not good because rappers don't get wet, you just, you
00:23:33
don't get wet.
00:23:34
Right, you can still rap.
00:23:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll just prove that, you know, you can be older and still make,
00:23:40
you know, rap music.
00:23:41
So it's not a thing about that, but I'm looking for newness, freshness.
00:23:46
I'm looking for what does someone do different with it?
00:23:51
What did you take it?
00:23:52
Where's the Jolt?
00:23:53
Where's the Jolt about it?
00:23:54
Yes, because to me, it's about progression.
00:23:57
Sure.
00:23:58
It's not about keeping up, you know, so and I like in rapping to boxing a lot of times.
00:24:03
Like, yes, you can start boxing when you're 50.
00:24:07
You're going to get hit a lot of times, you're not going to move back in my, yeah, sorry.
00:24:10
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that and they say it's like, oh, no, you just, you
00:24:15
just use an ageism in a, in a way, in a way, I am, I'm just being honest and I think sometimes
00:24:20
I'm just too real for people and stuff.
00:24:23
But it makes me think of one of your last verses, at least that's public, is on Killer
00:24:27
Mike's science and engineers and you say something that I think is really profound in that sense
00:24:32
where you say, hope I'm 81, I get my second wind.
00:24:34
A dollar move and you will get upgraded when you think you've made it, you are then just
00:24:38
tolerated overrated.
00:24:39
Hope I'm 81, I get my second wind.
00:24:41
Yeah, because we all want to keep going.
00:24:43
It's not like, I mean, let's be honest, it's like aging is hilarious and cruel at the same
00:24:52
time.
00:24:53
And we all going through it.
00:24:54
So let's not act like we not.
00:24:55
So everybody is dissing me about saying, you know, you're just using ages and around, all
00:25:00
these people be cutting their health and all the health they face or dying their beers and
00:25:04
dying their hair.
00:25:05
So like, you're trying to be young, you know, you're trying to present yourself as young.
00:25:10
So come on.
00:25:11
Let's stop playing.
00:25:12
I'm always just interested in the youth, man, when it comes to artwork, like I'll go to
00:25:20
watch young people's recitals at music schools because I want to see what they're doing.
00:25:25
And it's not that I'm uninterested in what an older person can do.
00:25:30
It's just that there's a certain window of freshness that I'm trying to see.
00:25:36
And it's always the youth that has the the flashlights and the compasses of where it's going to go.
00:25:43
Always.
00:25:44
Always in history.
00:25:45
I mean, I'm not even saying I knew this is over time.
00:25:49
It's shown.
00:25:50
And I think it's nature's way of keeping things even when you were young.
00:25:55
It's interesting.
00:25:56
So many elders.
00:25:57
I mean, you know, this is like a classic problem, not just in hip-hop.
00:26:00
This is true in rock and country where older generations, they just say, are these kids,
00:26:04
right?
00:26:05
I mean, no, I know you don't, but you know, you know people who are like that undoubtedly.
00:26:10
I know people are like that.
00:26:11
I know people who I came up with as a writer and they're like, I can't believe you still
00:26:14
write about all these teenagers, but I'm like, who else would I write about?
00:26:18
Yeah.
00:26:19
Okay.
00:26:20
You're out there looking for young people because you connect something in you to that
00:26:24
generative impulse, right?
00:26:27
When you were that teenager or that child, do you think that you were seeing properly
00:26:33
like the people?
00:26:34
Of course.
00:26:35
I'm sure there were some older people that are like, they crazy too, you know, and I think
00:26:39
you should have that you should make the generation that was before you kind of went a
00:26:46
little bit.
00:26:47
I think you should because at least you know that there's something different, you know,
00:26:53
and I don't think there's anything, yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong.
00:26:59
But you felt seen as that young person when you were young.
00:27:04
When you're young, you don't know you're young.
00:27:05
And you don't know if you're there seeing that.
00:27:07
Yeah.
00:27:08
You just doing it, which is how you shouldn't even be thinking about.
00:27:10
If I'm younger, if I'm old, when you're young, it's not even a, not even a thing, but what
00:27:15
I have noticed, which is awesome, we're all saying the same thing when we're at a certain
00:27:20
eight.
00:27:21
Yeah.
00:27:22
You know?
00:27:23
Become your parents.
00:27:24
Well, well, well, like if you listen to James Brown's sex machine and then you go like
00:27:30
a parent that will look at Lil Wayne and be like, I wish I could get a girl in the world.
00:27:35
And you're like, eh, what is he, did you listen to sex machine?
00:27:38
What's the difference?
00:27:39
He's a young man.
00:27:40
He's going to get out there.
00:27:41
Yeah.
00:27:42
What's the difference?
00:27:43
So it's kind of like we're judging, we're judging younger versions of ourselves, which
00:27:47
is not fair.
00:27:48
You know, it ain't.
00:27:49
So when you're chasing that childlike energy, you were talking about in improvisational
00:27:54
this, I don't even know what this is called in front of you laying on your lap, you're finding
00:28:02
that childlike spirit in that.
00:28:04
Is that similar to what you found as an actor where you've dabbled a little bit over
00:28:10
the years post rap?
00:28:11
Like do you find that same sort of youthful rule breaking childlike energy where you can
00:28:16
try something new on screen?
00:28:18
Yes.
00:28:19
Because it puts you in a position to reach something that you didn't know was going
00:28:24
to happen.
00:28:25
That's kind of like the magic of like when you're on screen and you're about to do a seeing,
00:28:29
yes, you know, kind of what the seeing starts with the seeing ends.
00:28:33
And if you pan attention, you might surprise yourself.
00:28:36
And that's kind of like the, you kind of get possessed in a way, you know.
00:28:41
And that's kind of what happens on stage too with this like, I didn't know that I would
00:28:45
grab this instrument.
00:28:46
I didn't know that I'd play these sequence of notes.
00:28:48
And then my brain, I'm responding to those sequences and I was like, woo, yeah.
00:28:52
And then you're going further in.
00:28:54
So it's kind of like your, this is a weird loop of not knowing where you're going, fear,
00:29:01
satisfaction is all is happening at once, you know.
00:29:05
And you get that if you pan attention on stage, on screen stage, yeah.
00:29:11
Can we talk also a little bit about honesty?
00:29:12
Can I read you something you said about 10 years ago for sure?
00:29:16
This is around, I think it was around speaker box.
00:29:20
You said, someone told me there are no bad actors, only dishonest actors.
00:29:25
If you ain't living in the moment, you're just acting like you're living in the moment,
00:29:28
just like the music.
00:29:30
And I wonder if there's a parallel in your mind between youth, honest and honesty.
00:29:37
And as you get older, we're all sacrificing some piece of our honesty in order to just
00:29:43
make it through the day.
00:29:44
That's what Peter Pan is about, right?
00:29:46
If you say so.
00:29:48
And in essence, what happened with you through the course of your career, in our cast,
00:29:54
at a certain point, you hit a wall where maybe you wanted to be honest, but the circumstance
00:29:59
didn't allow you to be honest.
00:30:02
Is that, is that, no, no, no, no, and I think it's, I think there's certain levels of honesty
00:30:09
too.
00:30:10
And you can be dishonest, but make it so creative that it's more interesting than the honest.
00:30:16
So I can say, like, and a lot of kids do it, because a lot of kids are trying to fit in, and
00:30:22
so they're pretending.
00:30:23
They're faking it.
00:30:24
Yeah.
00:30:25
But they make it look actually cool.
00:30:26
Yeah.
00:30:27
You know what I'm saying?
00:30:28
And a lot of posturing and rock and roll has been that's true, but then you get some honesty
00:30:32
in it.
00:30:33
Like once you actually get the strength, after you faked it for a long time, you get
00:30:37
the strength.
00:30:38
You, the clothes look like they fit you finally, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you kind
00:30:43
of get comfortable with your powers, I can say that much.
00:30:48
But no, no, our cast was like, it's so great for, it was like a chemistry experiment, and
00:30:57
me and Big Brother just bouncing off each other.
00:30:59
It was like a perfect time in life, and our personal lives and our careers, you know,
00:31:06
in our tastes, you know, it was, yeah, I'm so happy that I was a part of that situation,
00:31:12
you know, because I couldn't have been just, I wouldn't have even been under a 3000 if
00:31:19
I wasn't in a group.
00:31:20
Yeah.
00:31:21
I don't know.
00:31:23
I would have been doing something creative, but I don't know if, like, Big Boy gave me a balance
00:31:32
to do kind of whatever, you know, and vice versa, like, I'm sure there were times because we
00:31:38
were riding next to each other that we gained certain strength because we were riding next
00:31:43
to each other.
00:31:44
So yeah, I don't know how you could, we create that, that time.
00:31:49
When you look back on the reunion you guys did, I guess it was 10 years ago at this point,
00:31:54
didn't come with any new music, but you toured, was there an element of that that felt for
00:31:59
you, like, going through the motions and like, you didn't recapture the magic that you were
00:32:03
hoping you would?
00:32:04
No, after a while, see, once again, it's like, you have to find something honest in what you're
00:32:08
doing.
00:32:10
To go out on stage every night and perform the same songs over and over and over again,
00:32:14
there's a certain type of checking in, you know, and that's honest, to say that.
00:32:21
So you got to find something exciting to do, to keep yourself excited, and that's kind
00:32:26
of always been my challenge to keep myself excited, what people didn't know, like, almost
00:32:32
after every album, I would say to my manager, I'm done.
00:32:36
So, you know, after criminals, like, I'm done, I just think on it, I'm done.
00:32:40
So it's always finding ways to keep being excited.
00:32:44
So when that tour came around, I kind of just stepped on stage and thought I'd be able
00:32:50
to just instantly get back into it until after our first show, and I was humbled by the
00:32:56
first show.
00:32:57
And that made me have to find something to be excited about with the tour.
00:33:03
And hence, the suits with the words, right, with the slogans, yeah, right.
00:33:07
Because that was a way for me to say, because I was like, I have nothing new to say.
00:33:10
I'm going to hit doing these songs, you know?
00:33:12
So yeah, that was a way for me to say something new, everything.
00:33:15
But it can be something that's small, but that's small, just having it to do.
00:33:18
I was so excited to be silly to say new stuff, to say thoughts, say things that you wanted
00:33:25
to put in wraps, but couldn't hence the titles for the album.
00:33:28
I was gonna say exactly like the same way, it's just another way.
00:33:32
But it has these really long, these like tweets, dare I say, as titles.
00:33:37
Yeah.
00:33:38
Yeah.
00:33:39
Okay.
00:33:40
So 2014, you on the reunion tour, it's always easier to play characters.
00:33:47
They actually got André Benjamin, the first night talking about Coachella.
00:33:51
The first show.
00:33:52
They actually got André Benjamin.
00:33:53
And I clearly saw that they don't want André Benjamin.
00:33:57
He loves what he's done.
00:33:58
But I hate key jerseys.
00:34:00
Yeah.
00:34:01
Yeah.
00:34:02
I remember that.
00:34:03
And you also talked about having a conversation with Prince after that.
00:34:06
Oh, yeah.
00:34:07
Yeah.
00:34:08
He was so integral and integral and making reminding me of myself.
00:34:16
What is it?
00:34:17
To you that got you out of that, if it was a funk or an unsteadyness.
00:34:22
What was it that he said that sort of shook that loose for you?
00:34:25
Just really a grown man conversation.
00:34:29
We got on the phone and I never talked to him on the phone and he reached out.
00:34:34
And the first thing he said was you know what your problem is.
00:34:38
That's how you were.
00:34:39
Yeah.
00:34:40
Yeah.
00:34:41
Yeah.
00:34:42
And this is a great day.
00:34:43
Yeah.
00:34:44
And he said you don't you don't understand how big you are.
00:34:50
And I I didn't really understand and he was like you have to remind people.
00:34:56
And he started naming names of other artists that I didn't know that he was even paying attention
00:35:01
to music in that way anymore.
00:35:03
But he's like this artist and that artist they wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for
00:35:08
y'all.
00:35:09
It's his print.
00:35:10
San is.
00:35:11
You have to remind people who you are and then I'm you know I'm my shit and I'm like yeah
00:35:18
you know I don't really I don't really want to be doing it like you know I want to be doing
00:35:21
these songs and he's like man I've been there.
00:35:25
He's like I know exactly what you mean I've been there and I've you know I've been in exact
00:35:30
space not wanting to perform these songs and he said but you're a grown man and you signed
00:35:35
up.
00:35:36
So he was like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he said you signed up for these shows so you got
00:35:42
to give it to him.
00:35:43
And now yeah that changed the course of the whole tour.
00:35:48
Had anyone in any other context ever spoken to you so plainly about sort of the obligations
00:35:54
that come with being a creative artist in the world.
00:35:57
No, but he was totally right like it's like if you don't want to do it don't do it right
00:36:02
just don't get up there and don't do it.
00:36:04
You know what I mean like yeah so yeah yeah so yeah yeah and he didn't and it made me
00:36:12
look at Prince in a whole another way because I only knew him like as a fan like as a kid
00:36:19
my older cousin turned me on the Prince and I always looked up to my older cousin he
00:36:23
always wore the cool clothes he had all the cool girlfriends and he's like playing Prince
00:36:27
so I'm a kid watching all this and so Prince was like a hero to me.
00:36:33
He couldn't hear it in music but he just called that next day possibly yeah but you have
00:36:42
to understand like so I'm walking to the stage to do Coachella me and big coming out the
00:36:47
trailer and you kind of the path to the stage I see Prince and I'm like I haven't performed
00:36:57
on stage in 10 years and Prince right there and he goes and sits on the side of the stage
00:37:04
to the right then I see Paul McCartney and he goes and sits on the left no pressure and sit
00:37:13
there yeah did you look at them and say hey come back tomorrow like just give me a little
00:37:22
shit like I just got a shake loose nah nah I mean at that point you know the nerves going
00:37:28
and then what people don't understand like our whole career like I never use any ears
00:37:34
which is a kind of these things you plug into your ears so you can hear the music we were
00:37:38
always just raw off the cuff we were always just hearing music out of the monitors we didn't
00:37:42
have these any of things so that was my very first show ever using any ears we had technical
00:37:48
difficult to so I'm hearing people talk I'm hearing music cut in and out so I'm like so halfway
00:37:56
throughout the show I was already sleep in my room I'm just trying to get through it yeah sure
00:38:02
you know I think Tyler the creator was up front Kendrick was right there so they want them like
00:38:09
fuck yeah it was a wild man but the prince conversation recalibrated you yeah for sure I mean
00:38:27
cause there's a certain respect and I knew he knew what I was talking about right and he wasn't
00:38:33
booing and then it was true like and then at that point I was like okay what can I find exciting
00:38:40
to do I had to kind of dig into myself and find what am I happy about you know you got a that's
00:38:48
the honesty yeah like I knew what I had to do but what can I be honest about and I was really
00:38:53
being excited about those those black suits and they were actually we did like 47 shows so
00:39:01
there's actually 47 black suits not one suit that I changed every night they were 47 black suits and
00:39:08
I was very phrases written on them yes yes also sold as many of them sold as t-shirts yes yes t-shirts
00:39:14
later on but and we did an exhibit at our basil when we showed all the suits in a row which is kind
00:39:22
of cool to see but yeah that was my excitement in the intervening 10 years it's not like you didn't
00:39:29
wrap got a lot of verses that are out in the world in that time like talk to me about finding those
00:39:34
moments of excitement where you did whether it was with killer mic most recently or with frank
00:39:39
it out really frank ocean you know walk it out you know there's a there's a there's a yay
00:39:45
verse in there you know on on life of the party like what what how did you know when those moments
00:39:52
needed to happen for you I didn't I didn't know they were all just really the strength of those
00:39:59
artists like reaching out sometimes it was the beat sometimes it was the song sometimes it was the
00:40:04
situation sometimes it was the relationship and beat but I couldn't have done no songs if it wasn't
00:40:11
for the artist laying the bed down for me to to be excited about it from that's from ti
00:40:20
to easy to kill it but even to kill a shout out to kill a kill I always like man you got to talk
00:40:27
more about me interviews I'll say this he talks about you in interviews yeah yeah yeah shout out to
00:40:34
kill yeah he told me that he picked two things for his album from you one was scientists and engineers
00:40:42
he said you took the other one back but that it was like 11 minutes yes okay so yeah I know exactly
00:40:49
what he's talking about so what people don't know is the scientists and engineers that verse was
00:40:56
eight years old and I let kill a hear it it was something that me and James Blake were working on
00:41:02
while and so me and James Blake I did the verse we never went back to it we never finished it so
00:41:09
it was always since the verse like this verse laying around and then actually we we all have a three
00:41:14
of me and all the dungeon family you guys are selling your good chat yeah yeah so I sent that verse
00:41:20
actually in the dungeon if they look at it now is that verse is in the in the in the group in the
00:41:28
group chat because we were preparing to do this giant dungeon family album and so I was just offering
00:41:33
what I had and so I sent that verse in the dungeon family group chat that album didn't end up getting
00:41:41
made so once again this verse is laying around so killer he's like you got anything so I'm just kind
00:41:49
of playing stuff and kill is like can I use it so kill takes it and him and no ID produce around it
00:41:59
get future on it but yeah they composed a great song around it and it ends up coming out and it was
00:42:06
always called scientists and engineers the original idea so that even that verse was was old so people
00:42:15
think it's fresh and I wrote it but it's kind of like an old verse that was that was around that kill
00:42:20
us all some value and and used it the Kanye song that subject matter like I knew he was working on this
00:42:29
album called Dunder and I knew he had lost his mom just like I lost my mom so I knew that subject matter
00:42:35
better than anyone and it's hard to explain to anyone like until you lose a parent you you can't
00:42:42
even explain it to anyone so when he said hey I want to play this album for you this he played me the
00:42:49
whole Dunder album he actually sent it to me and said give me your opinions on these songs give me your
00:42:55
comments and I actually listened to the whole album and gave notes on you know what I felt about the
00:43:01
songs he took a man how he how he would and he said yeah man I like you to contribute to this album
00:43:10
do you hear anything you'd like to be on and I didn't hear anything per se and then
00:43:14
Bentley Bentley Fawn's Roger
00:43:19
Dave Watkins he said well we're working on these other songs so I'll let you hear these other
00:43:26
songs that we first started with and he plays me the beat for life of the part and I was like oh this is
00:43:31
it and so after I heard that music which was a sample you know it was so full and I could
00:43:40
write hey mr. and you're running till my mom up please tell her I said say something I'm starting to
00:43:46
believe in all such thing that's happens Trump it's no after over this is it done if there's a heaven
00:43:51
you would think they let you speak in your son I felt like something that was speaking to his mother
00:43:58
I don't know would would be awesome and so I kind of just had the approach of knowing that his
00:44:06
mother and my mother if you believe in the bible and you know having and all that kind of stuff
00:44:11
that they were possibly in the same place and so I was speaking as if I'm speaking to his mom to
00:44:18
tell a message to my mom so it was you know it was kind of uh yeah this messaging third party situation
00:44:26
so yeah just that that song opened it up for me to be able to say things that I couldn't have said
00:44:33
without Kanye so his strength of asking me to be on the album got me to speak more about that because
00:44:42
I never would have wrote that verse and then unfortunately it sort of was leaked it became a pond
00:44:48
and some broader thing like yeah unfortunately uh I mean the history of it now I mean I know
00:44:55
Kanye and Drake has some beef and words and they were beefing at the time and um I don't know how
00:45:03
it happened I don't know this is so odd but Drake got a hold to the song before Kanye was
00:45:11
able to put it out and Drake released it on his radio show like he just put it out and it was like
00:45:17
oh uh given how personal that verse was to you like did you consider that in a front or were you
00:45:24
just like beef is beef yeah because they would they were kind of going at it and I actually didn't
00:45:29
understand why he did it I don't know if he if he under because what people don't know too is at that
00:45:36
point uh Kanye and I weren't really uh in a grants of how the song would be released yeah so I didn't
00:45:43
I'm not sure if he was going to even come out I see so I don't know if Drake found out the song
00:45:48
was not going to come out and was just saying well I'm going to put it out because it was it was a thing
00:45:53
about uh Kanye was at a point in his life where he didn't want any curse words all right and I said
00:46:00
yeah I'm cool with it man yeah I'm I'm totally fine with no curse words but take me off the song
00:46:05
because I'd ridden it a certain way like he said early on you're like I don't make clean version
00:46:10
yeah yeah but and I was cool with beat versions but I said you have to put the dirty version out too
00:46:16
right and he uh at that point he didn't want to put a dirty version out he said I told my daughter
00:46:22
that I would not have any curse words on this album and I was like hey man say no more man the kids for
00:46:27
sure so just take me off and we weren't in a grants on how the song would come out finally um Drake
00:46:34
puts it out so kind of have to thank Drake for uh you know for letting that song see a lot of day
00:46:43
and I want to clear some up too I think a lot of people think that uh Kanye uh took the song and then
00:46:51
did the the put the the disc part out without me knowing about right I'd heard the disc part
00:46:57
and me and Kanye had a conversation about it you know I had my my feelings about it I was like
00:47:02
man do you really want to do this on this type of song you know uh I was like it's kind of like
00:47:08
going and shooting up your mom's funeral you know like I don't know and you know he felt the way he
00:47:14
felt uh at the time and um yeah he put the the disc verse on it because I heard the original verse but
00:47:23
so I want to clear it up to fans a lot of fans like oh man I was disrespectful that he just put the
00:47:28
disc verse and Andre didn't know about it nah I knew I knew about it but it was um it was just his
00:47:34
his decision do you sleep well sometimes when you're not what does that look like uh I'm up uh
00:47:44
watching true crime uh relatable or ridiculousness uh oh wow yeah yeah yeah um yeah I'm always
00:47:53
watching something or on you two watching like art documentaries or something yeah you're you
00:47:58
two guy yeah tell me through a recent YouTube rabbit haul that you've been down because I recently
00:48:05
just left Japan uh of course I've now you know kind of do these 4k walks through different cities
00:48:12
in Japan oh like a walking tour yeah yeah walking tours and uh kind of learning the language so these
00:48:20
kind of uh Japanese language YouTube is um and different uh Japanese crafts and hand crafts
00:48:30
Andre I want to return to this idea of child like wonder and excitement that you're seeking out in
00:48:35
the music you're performing I feel like if most people even most musicians took to you know
00:48:41
experimental flute music as a outlet they would be doing so in semi-obscurity but because it's you
00:48:50
and you have this career behind you you're the guy who made it's aliens in stankonia and hey yeah
00:48:56
like it comes with all this extra attention here you are not there for album of the year at the
00:49:01
Grammys you're automatically playing the blue note you're touring festivals sold out shows in a way
00:49:07
that I think a lot of people who work in these modes aren't you see like how do you reconcile the
00:49:13
amount of attention that you're getting for something that you're admittedly new at uh I charge it
00:49:22
to to what we're doing you know like a lot of these festivals and like the blue note residency is
00:49:29
like these are not like like Pinyani like institutions like they don't just let anybody come
00:49:36
and play around you know so I think it's on the strength of what we're doing and possibly people listening
00:49:43
to what we're doing and seeing what we're doing and I think it was important for us to actually go out
00:49:48
and show people the process of how the sounds were recorded because I don't think people actually
00:49:56
realized that we're conjuring what's happening composing on the spot um and that's kind of like
00:50:04
the best place I think I could have been like for for player that's exploring this instrument because
00:50:10
I mean like I didn't go to school I didn't you know take lessons I didn't go through scales I didn't
00:50:18
go through all the scales through different keys and that kind of thing which I'm familiar with
00:50:22
but still unfamiliar with sure so I think the setting um yeah the setting was probably the best
00:50:29
way for me to um to explore this thing because I've only been a street player like this kind of
00:50:35
on the street in nature uh playing in parks and stuff like that so uh yeah I think a lot of this
00:50:42
is coming from from from from what we're doing and of course the name Andre 3000
00:50:47
gets uh clicks you know for people to check it out right actually think a lot of people uh
00:50:52
thought it was a joke or thought it was not a real thing so it was important to go out and do it
00:50:59
um you know in person one of the things I was thinking about is about the album as this kind of fixed
00:51:06
box every time you listen to the album it's the same but every time you listen to a new blues on
00:51:11
performance it's different yes and I wonder what you would say to people who are listening to the album
00:51:19
how do you sort of balance the fixedness of the album versus the livingness of the live performances
00:51:29
uh the album is truly in this case one snapshot of a very long project yes that's ongoing yes
00:51:36
and for most people the album is the end point and I'm not replicated yeah I mean I think it's
00:51:41
is like looking at a photo like if you look at a photo from an event that happened years ago it's
00:51:47
that moment it can never happen again and you're tying that moment to that moment but um yeah
00:51:54
when we do it live we're actually more or less displaying the process and how it was done uh and staying
00:52:02
authentic to that so that's probably more important um for for us but yeah it is uh it's a snapshot
00:52:10
and every night is a different snapshot do you listen to the album and if you do what are you hearing
00:52:18
that's different from the person who is now played dozens and dozens of shows you know further
00:52:25
down the journey as it were I rarely listen to the album but sometimes we're in situations where
00:52:30
the album is playing um like before I show sometimes we play a playlist of you know some of our favorite
00:52:39
songs uh other artists uh other artists in the community um and in that playlist uh our album
00:52:47
is in it so new blue sun songs may come up and I'm sitting and listening to it and sometimes
00:52:53
it takes a minute for me to recognize who it is and one time I remember me and Carl's were having
00:52:57
this moment it was like man listen to that like it but it was something that we we did it's kind of like
00:53:04
you you experienced it a different way uh every time and you remember those moments and I can say
00:53:09
um studio is different from live because when you're in a live situation the
00:53:17
the venue the audience become a part of what you're doing right so you have you know thousands of
00:53:24
people they are looking and so they become part of the intensity and and sometimes we we're playing
00:53:29
festivals now so I've noticed when we play festivals a lot of times we play louder because we have to
00:53:35
project in a certain way uh during the tour sometimes we go back in the studio uh to have sessions
00:53:42
and we notice we listen because it's more of a we can hear more like sometimes we sometimes we they
00:53:48
don't give us a sound check so sometimes the sound is just not as great as we want it to be so you
00:53:54
have to kind of listen in a completely different way so um I would say uh the album may be a little
00:54:02
bit more um delicate and smaller interesting you know yeah that that's what I would notice but I
00:54:11
think over time uh from us playing together uh I think we just get i guess more ballsy and being free
00:54:20
do you hear that in your own playing on the album sure because you're playing now for sure for sure
00:54:26
there's a lot of timidness you know uh and the album a lot of baby baby steps you know still have baby
00:54:34
steps but um now it's kind of like um a toddler running through the house you know you know I mean like
00:54:43
yeah yeah it's it's a lot different and one thing that keeps us fresh too is every city we go into we
00:54:49
go to antique stores music stores uh and we purchased new instruments so on the tour bus like we have
00:54:58
bunks and bunks full of new new new instruments sound so we may purchase some instrument and I'll
00:55:06
play it that night on stage so you get the newness once again so it's like okay I'm figuring out
00:55:12
but still you know you I think the audience um the audience and the venue helps you do a thing like
00:55:20
the acoustics of a venue make you do a thing like if it's a huge reverberation space you wait more
00:55:27
between notes because you want to hear it then if you're in a tight space you know something so yeah
00:55:33
all of that plays into it yeah and what are your plans for the future of the project do you hope
00:55:37
there's another album with this group along these lines is that important to you or it doesn't
00:55:42
mostly exist as a live thing for you we have so much so much so much music and um
00:55:48
and new ways to to put it out so we explore in those ways uh and even within the crew um albums that
00:55:56
are out now uh sir you just put out an album Nate just put out an album so we're always working on
00:56:02
on music in a certain way um of course we're um we're willing to score a film you know
00:56:12
say project to the camera yeah yeah get get there it's clear on the phone yeah yeah yeah yeah it will
00:56:19
happen it will happen we're just trying to um play our parts to to it's time for it to happen
00:56:24
because a lot of what we what we're doing feels are very cinematic at times we go through waves
00:56:32
we get delicate then we crash and you know so it's it's made for film and we would hope to
00:56:37
score the film the same way we would record our album so um yeah looking forward to that
00:56:45
I mean you you've worked with some real authors in in your film career Clarity who I just mentioned
00:56:52
obviously uh Noah Bombak on on white noise and Kelly Reichhardt most recently like what do
00:56:58
what have you learned from from those sorts of leaders of groups when it comes to directing on a
00:57:05
film set I have to say that I've been blessed a lot because I'm not a big film book like I don't
00:57:10
know a lot really yeah yeah I'm not so a lot of times my first time hearing of these directors is
00:57:16
when they reach out oh that's cool so I I'm I wasn't familiar with Claire but now we're like close
00:57:21
to like and we you know she sent me stuff she's working on now and you know we keep in contact and see
00:57:27
how she's doing and uh like I'm learning from the the innocence of not knowing which is actually like
00:57:35
I just think I've been blessed with uh I call it almost like obliviousness in a way you know
00:57:42
even myself like meeting Carlos Nino who's percussionist in the band I didn't know the waves
00:57:49
and waves and waves of music that Carlos had been involved in when we met I met him as a guy in
00:57:54
air one and he's like man I heard you were playing flute you know we should get together you know
00:57:59
and I'm like cool we in as a garage plan but I learned later like if if I would have known I probably
00:58:06
would have been way more timid about it or but I it was on the respect of and strength of just
00:58:14
music alone and a lot of people who are like when I first work with James Blake as well I didn't know
00:58:20
James Blake was an artist James Blake right you know like a friend of mine I was listening to this um
00:58:26
to this uh Vince Staples song and I asked Vince's manager who's doing those sounds and he was like uh
00:58:33
yeah this producer James and I was like I like to meet just do because I heard these kind of sounds
00:58:38
that sounded smart I don't know what it was and so he's like yeah I hook you up with him so I go
00:58:42
in the studio and me and James start uh plan around this this had to be almost like three or four days in
00:58:48
until I I know oh he's had a whole career so you don't google before you know I'm like yeah yeah
00:58:54
it's not for the date yeah yeah man it's just just on the strength but that's happened and years ago
00:59:01
James and I went to studio in between working on these songs and I picked up a bass clarinet James
00:59:06
on piano and the engineer recorded it and we actually just put it out so that was actually the first
00:59:12
totally improv situation and you threw it on soundcloud right yeah yeah so uh yeah so it's
00:59:18
I'm kind of always along just a footerite you know and it's always a
00:59:22
a oblivious innocence take it for what it is at the time uh and I know for me you know
00:59:32
doing music all this time and people treat you different when they know your Andre 3,000 instead of
00:59:38
of just this guy so I know that um I kind of I kind of like that I don't know a lot of times
00:59:45
one of the things that feels like a through line in everything in your career dating back
00:59:51
I would say to idle wild and even before is almost what I would describe as a retreat from the
00:59:57
Andre 3,000 of outcast character whether it's the clothing line whether Benjamin Bixby there's a time
01:00:04
I interviewed you in 2014 you showed me some visual arts and sketching you'd done and obviously
01:00:09
here we are playing music again but we're playing music we're not speaking music yeah there's no voice
01:00:14
we're playing music and I wonder if is the through line of this last 10 to 12 years of your life
01:00:22
in essence a full retreat from whether it's the art that that character has to make or the
01:00:29
pressures of being that character it's all of that man like um yeah outcast was a great great
01:00:37
blessing and catapult to a place that I could I could have never thought about it like me and big
01:00:42
when we first started it was we just we just wanted to wrap and it turned into a thing that I don't
01:00:48
I don't know that we could even file them how big it could get you know so um I do think
01:00:59
me being an only child um my personality not being as outgoing um it was probably a shocker
01:01:08
yeah to my system while you were in it yeah in a multi decade shocker yeah yeah yeah but when you
01:01:13
when you're in it you're just going until one day you like a whole of I don't feel great and uh
01:01:19
I remember sitting down and having to tell big that man I have this anxiety thing happening
01:01:24
and I remember like for a long time I didn't say anything and I'm I'm sure you know
01:01:28
the crew was like I don't know what's what's going on and I remember having a car I sat down
01:01:33
with big and told me yeah man I have these and like panic attacks and I don't know what's happening man
01:01:38
but um when I look back at it like I didn't have it as a child you know what I mean like I don't
01:01:44
remember filling anxious in that way so I do think it was probably the pressure and expectation
01:01:52
and uh yeah just people how people consider you in the world um I can't remember this this
01:02:00
documentary and somebody will in this day and age somebody will tell you they'll
01:02:04
some of Google it yeah there's a documentary this classical pianist um I can't remember his name
01:02:11
but yet he had stopped playing and one of his comments he's he's uh he was 70 80 something like
01:02:17
that and one of his comments was no human should feel that much expectation or energy from the outside
01:02:25
world of the changes yeah in a certain way and I man I totally understood what he was saying like
01:02:31
it is very um very weird for people to look at you in a certain way because we're all the same
01:02:39
you know right but for people to look up at you or look I don't know it's just a certain thing
01:02:46
and I don't know if I was ready for that but I would not change it you know what I have a question
01:02:51
I should yeah go for and you have to be completely honest okay when new blue sun first came out
01:02:57
your first reviews yeah of new blue sun on camera it was it was not in the most positive way and I'm
01:03:04
not tripping on it all like music it's music and we all have opinions and we should um has that changed
01:03:10
or what changed from that first I guess kind of review of of the records are we talking about a blurb
01:03:18
or we're talking about a punch talking about like the hundred word thing or the full thing I think
01:03:21
it's a part I think it was on camera I think I think we talked about it in this room oh then I don't
01:03:26
remember what I said they don't pull it up no no it's not good man you know I'm talking about
01:03:32
improv you know I think the question stands was just like how did your experience of the album change
01:03:36
from which is coming out of the sky well we get a opinion so okay so there's two things
01:03:43
one on the album I feel like I can feel that thing that you just described as timidness
01:03:48
or humidity yeah I feel the juxtaposition of that against the admittedly extremely intense and
01:03:56
studied and very very powerful backing you feel that um tension but we need to and that stuck
01:04:05
in my ear got from the album got you I heard that in those first shows and also I felt that at the
01:04:11
first Brooklyn theater show before the Blu-no restaurant yeah yeah remember those I felt there
01:04:15
was more comfort at the blue note and then when I went to the band show uh two months ago or whatnot
01:04:22
I was like oh everybody is speaking the same language and that to me that's the thing that really
01:04:28
ties the room together yeah man because there was this sense I think on the album in that first
01:04:33
show that there's a band playing and then there's you playing but it wasn't always totally talking to
01:04:39
each other got you and now when I was watching in bam I was like no they are in communication with
01:04:45
each other yeah man that and that to me development growth over time comfort with a group of people
01:04:52
etc that feels like it's far down the road that's actually part of why I asked the question about
01:04:59
how do you think about the album because the album not only is the album the fixed box that you
01:05:03
can't change or undo it's also reflective of a moment yeah you had less harmony with the backing
01:05:11
troop right right captures a moment of innocence as tries which I actually think uh I actually think
01:05:18
it's the strength of the album uh to to your point uh because I think we rarely get um
01:05:27
and record it music we rarely get to see um that material that I'm talking about that discovery
01:05:33
material yeah and I think it's once again it's hard to fake and I think that was actually the um
01:05:39
like especially the first song like I'd taken that instrument out of the box 20 minutes before
01:05:44
we started recording so those were you hear somebody figuring this thing out yeah I think you
01:05:50
feel that in young people's rap music yes yes yeah the strength is the wildness in it so I guess you
01:05:56
have to uh you get a trade-off or figure what's what's most important um in the equation but yeah uh
01:06:04
and yeah and I guess my only last question on that note is as you've done all these shows over these
01:06:09
many months do you relate differently in your mind I mean maybe I'm seeing something and I'm seeing
01:06:16
it through my frame but do you relate differently to what's happening on stage are you hearing differently
01:06:21
do you feel more tuned or differently attuned than you might have eight or nine months ago yes
01:06:27
I hear differently because we're as a crew uh developed and moving along in a way but when I listen
01:06:36
back um it's almost as if um it's almost as if I'm more melodic early on you know and I think uh I don't
01:06:46
know why uh maybe it's because uh stage and the anticipation of doing something so I think it's the
01:06:56
audience kind of well what are you doing instead of being in the studio is what the only audience is
01:07:01
our engineer right so I think you played differently I think it would be like like having sex with you
01:07:10
and your mate or being on the camera set and having people look why you're doing it you
01:07:15
you say I'm glad it is it's different yeah yeah yeah I mean I've I've never been in a situation but
01:07:22
I assume I assume you know if you got people just peering in but I would have you get used to that
01:07:29
right we we've got used to people watching to peering at there you go and that's that is fair
01:07:35
before we move on to the next part of this pop cast experience should we eat a snack where should
01:07:43
he is snack your gummies guy yes I love gummies I'm a fruit snack addict gummies yeah can you chose
01:07:50
from the pantry John talk about these are the vegan bears Santa Monica flavor profile okay I pulled
01:07:57
these out of Delta first class although to be fair it was only to Cleveland so it's not like it was a
01:08:01
wasn't a cross country first class but um now as we're eating one the last thing that
01:08:08
we're going forward now yeah yeah yeah that's reading one thing that we talked about before you
01:08:13
even set foot in the New York Times building is your skepticism about podcasts and one thing that
01:08:18
you said is if we're gonna do something let's make it let's make it a little interesting these are
01:08:23
good yeah man vegan gummies nope my own okay no no no no we're good they're all yours they're all
01:08:32
yours Santa Monica people walk out with full bags it's totally fine um so you had some skepticism
01:08:37
about guests and you want to do something a little unusual hmm you want to yeah see yeah all right rank
01:08:46
ready for gummy bears then we'll set it up out of 10 day eight okay yeah they're a little medicinal
01:08:53
for me I can see that I'm a horrible guy yeah yeah same see the harbor got a little bit more bite
01:08:59
little yeah and actually if if I'm going soft gummy bear I'm going albinese yeah yeah I'm going
01:09:05
well just okay yeah yeah so true fruity like the true fruity oh yeah squeaky yeah I mean these
01:09:12
what I like is that the flavor doesn't sit on the outside of the gum I feel like you're biting
01:09:16
into the flavor gotta get there yeah it's like your chew it's not flavor then a bunch of dry chew
01:09:22
it's you're chewing it and then you're arriving at the flavor which is I think a helpful thing yeah
01:09:26
these are more taffier I'm a I'm a four out of 10 I don't really I don't love them sorry Delta um
01:09:32
yeah I'm I'm with Andre I'm an eight on the well yeah you're the good I'm an eight on me so I bought
01:09:36
why bottom in bulk after the flight I bought them on a bottom on bulk I'm a zero your I'm not against
01:09:42
a podcast at all like I think they're awesome I just think we've gotten into a place where there's
01:09:47
so many of that like my friends send me podcasts all the time and I feel like yeah we're work and I
01:09:54
feel like I'm I can't keep up like I can't keep up with with all the the podcast so it's like damn
01:10:01
yeah um so that's why like I was when we were talking about I'm just actually more attracted to
01:10:07
um no camera like it this comes to me there's there's wonder and mystery and just hearing a voice
01:10:14
in the void instead of you know sitting and sure you know seeing this thing up but I know we're
01:10:20
in a visual world people a lot a little clips around but there's something about um I guess I'm
01:10:25
an old school kind of person like there's something like when you can stare when we had to stare
01:10:29
at album covers and you create a world in your brain you want to do that staring and still yeah like
01:10:35
now there's nothing to to force you to be creative in your brain like you're just looking at these
01:10:41
guys sitting up and talking but you have a kind of creative proposition that we are delivering a
01:10:48
creative from opposition so we're going to do something special yeah we're going to do something
01:10:52
special so tell us what you wanted to do here today we will be playing upstairs which is a new
01:10:57
thing for y'all right this is a first a lot of firsts happening here today I think it's important
01:11:04
to talk about the people behind what we do so I think it's in great form right now to introduce
01:11:11
everyone the new loose unbanned yeah so this is Carlos Nenio Nate Mercero de Anthony Parks
01:11:20
and Syria about a façena thank you guys so much for being here coming to the New York Times a very
01:11:26
special day in the newsroom the fish balls never been this alive yeah we're going to have fun
01:11:31
all right do your thing what do you want to go let's go let's go
01:11:33
yeah let's go tell us where we are what are we doing today um on drink 3000 is going to perform
01:12:03
in the New York Times new room
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01:25:07
(audience applauding)
01:25:10
[BLANK_AUDIO]
