Popcast Live! Counting Down Our Favorite Music Moments of 2024
Update: 2025-01-10
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A final look back at some of our favorite characters, trends and micro-moments of 2024, recorded live at S.O.B.’s in New York in December. Plus: IRL listener mailbag!Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything
from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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Transcript
00:00:00
I use New York Times cooking at least three to four times a week.
00:00:03
I love sheep pan bibimbap.
00:00:05
It's been 35 minutes.
00:00:06
It was 35 minutes.
00:00:07
The cucumber salad that soy changed around garlic.
00:00:10
Oh my God, that is just to die for it.
00:00:12
This turkey chili has over 17,000 five star ratings.
00:00:16
So easy, so delicious.
00:00:19
Instructions are so clear, so simple, and it just works.
00:00:24
Hey, it's Eric Kim from New York Times Cooking.
00:00:26
Come cook with us.
00:00:27
Go to nytcooking.com.
00:00:29
Welcome to the New York Times pop cast, New York, and did music news and criticism.
00:00:39
I'm John Caramannica, the critic of the New York Times.
00:00:41
I'm Joe Cascarelli.
00:00:42
I'm a reporter at the New York Times.
00:00:44
Joe, 2024, awful year, terrible year, at a good year, perverse.
00:00:54
It's a perverse thing to say.
00:00:56
It has been a chaotic year, especially in pop music.
00:00:59
A number of people have emerged from the ether who we could not have predicted 12 months ago.
00:01:06
People who we thought maybe would dominate the year, where are they?
00:01:10
Not here.
00:01:11
No, certainly not here.
00:01:13
They're absolutely not with us in SOBs.
00:01:16
It's a real confusing time.
00:01:20
Everybody's fatigued.
00:01:21
Are you all fatigued of lists?
00:01:23
We're going to make a list in real time.
00:01:26
Yeah, because we have one last list for everybody.
00:01:30
We're going to do the 10 most meaningful music moments of pop in 2024.
00:01:36
We're going to run those down.
00:01:37
They're sort of, I would say they're non-ordinal.
00:01:40
I would say they're non-ordinal.
00:01:41
Minor in order.
00:01:42
Minor not in order.
00:01:44
Joe did the homework, so I didn't do it.
00:01:46
Minor in five to one order.
00:01:48
We'll put it that way.
00:01:49
Not one to five.
00:01:50
Okay, well for those keeping score at home, first of all, shout out to the discord.
00:01:55
Who's on the discord?
00:01:56
Who's on the discord?
00:01:57
Look at that.
00:01:58
Meet each other if you don't already know each other.
00:02:00
Yeah, like everybody, hang out.
00:02:01
Two people here told me that they're internet friends, but not from the discord, but from a bleachers fan community.
00:02:07
Look, that's for you to answer, too.
00:02:09
I told you, bleachers fans have good taste.
00:02:13
That's phenomenal.
00:02:14
I, I, I, I tell them, tell them I send my regrets, like with, with deepest regards.
00:02:22
We're going to go through our 10 semi-ordinal moments.
00:02:25
We're going to open up the floor for Q&A.
00:02:27
They'll be a microphone being passed around, and then we're going to have a snack, and then we're going to hang out and, uh, and talk, right?
00:02:33
Sure.
00:02:34
We have stickers.
00:02:35
What else?
00:02:36
We're just, I see people wearing the t-shirts.
00:02:37
Yeah, a couple t-shirts in the room.
00:02:40
This logo might be, need to be retired in 2024, what is it?
00:02:44
That's rude.
00:02:45
It doesn't get better than being outside SOBs, like that's, it's- I understand, but Purple Haze, it's having a 20th anniversary this year, it's a very important album.
00:02:54
There you go.
00:02:55
Prost on vinyl for the first time.
00:02:57
Do you remember the first time, first and only time we did something like this live?
00:03:02
We asked the room, do you know the reference for the logo?
00:03:09
And you remember that nobody knew the reference?
00:03:12
There you go.
00:03:13
But it took a minute.
00:03:14
It took a minute, right?
00:03:15
It was a long silence before anyone was like, "It's Cameron's Purple Haze logo."
00:03:20
Yes.
00:03:21
Is it weird?
00:03:22
Like, if you don't know that that's Cameron's Purple Haze font from the album cover, why do you like us?
00:03:29
Genuine question?
00:03:30
No, no, no.
00:03:31
Tell us during the Q&A.
00:03:32
I'll be really curious.
00:03:33
I have an answer for you, but I'm going to save it.
00:03:34
All right.
00:03:35
We'll save it for later.
00:03:36
We'll save it for later.
00:03:37
We'll save it for later.
00:03:38
We'll save it for later.
00:03:39
We'll save it for later.
00:03:41
I have an answer for you, but I'm going to save it.
00:03:42
All right.
00:03:43
We'll save it for later.
00:03:44
We'll save it for later.
00:03:45
Joe, I think it's time for you to talk to people about your first pop music moment of 2024.
00:03:51
I'm going to play a song.
00:03:54
You've all heard it.
00:03:55
It's not my favorite song of the year.
00:03:58
It's not even my fourth favorite song by this artist of the year, but it stuck with me.
00:04:07
You guys know this one?
00:04:08
You see this?
00:04:10
I just want to listen to a little bit of it just so you remember.
00:04:14
I forgot about this video.
00:04:25
It's all right.
00:04:26
It's pretty good.
00:04:27
Do you guys know the words to this song?
00:04:53
Do you have actually?
00:04:55
Are you sure?
00:04:56
Yeah.
00:04:57
It's a really good pleasure.
00:04:59
I want to talk to people about the prequel.
00:05:05
The prequel.
00:05:06
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:07
Focus on this.
00:05:08
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:08
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:09
Focus on this.
00:05:10
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:11
The prequel.
00:05:12
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:13
Focus on this.
00:05:14
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:15
I want to hear the prequel.
00:05:16
So the first hundred times I heard this song, I had no idea what she was saying, let alone talking about.
00:05:24
I find it to be really hard to grasp the sentences if you could call them up.
00:05:30
She's not enunciating.
00:05:32
Yes.
00:05:33
The millennial mouth is strong in terms of the-- Is that a real thing?
00:05:37
Did you just invent that?
00:05:39
No, it's like a style of singing with a lack of enunciation, Ariana Grande.
00:05:46
In this house, we do not stand hallsing.
00:05:50
Sorry.
00:05:52
But the lyrics to this song, I just kept coming back to them.
00:05:55
Oh geez.
00:05:56
All right, there's this Nintendo thing, right?
00:06:02
Switch it up like an Nintendo, right?
00:06:04
Move it up down left right, oh, I don't know what she's talking about there.
00:06:09
But then, eventually, you get around to the metaphor that's the through line for the song.
00:06:16
And really, I'm telling you, when I tell you that this only hit me two months ago, this song is about caffeine and comparing lust to caffeine,
00:06:27
right?
00:06:29
So the lines, it's-- but there's only-- Where are you going?
00:06:33
There's only-- I just want to-- There's only, like, two lines in this song about caffeine.
00:06:39
They all came out eight months ago, you know?
00:06:41
I just need us all to focus for a moment.
00:06:44
On the lines, I know I mountain do it for you.
00:06:48
That morning coffee brewed it for you, one touch and I brand nude it for you.
00:06:54
So like, that one's not about caffeine anyway.
00:06:56
Like, you get two lines about caffeine and then all of a sudden, I just, I think nonsense sells.
00:07:06
I think, like, this song kept me coming back because it's so hard to understand the extended metaphor in which caffeine is represented by a espresso and mountain do.
00:07:22
I just want to just sit with that for a little bit.
00:07:25
Look, I am a noted connoisseur of caffeine consumption.
00:07:29
I know.
00:07:30
You drink mountain do-- like, how-- oh, if you're naming things with caffeine in them, how far down the list you have to go before you get to mountain do?
00:07:37
Ask JD VAMs.
00:07:39
[LAUGHTER]
00:07:40
OK, so these lyrics-- wait, there's more-- to me, these are the best lyrics of the year.
00:07:50
OK.
00:07:51
Because of-- The best songwriting of the year?
00:07:53
The best songwriting of the year because they just keep you coming back.
00:07:59
OK.
00:08:01
You know what this really reminds me of?
00:08:03
All right.
00:08:04
So one of the most perplexing lines in any pop song in the last like 10 years is on Rihanna's Wild Thoughts, a book you were unofficial remix way better candidly, but not officially released.
00:08:17
There's a line where Rihanna's on there and she says something, something, something like the 68 jets, which is a football team.
00:08:25
At least, you know that, I don't-- Rihanna doesn't know anything about 68 jets.
00:08:30
You think she knows about Broadway, Joe Namath?
00:08:32
You think she's out there with the fur, like, on the field?
00:08:35
Like, that's what she's up on.
00:08:37
It just reminds me that pop songwriting, especially when it's done by committee, can often feel blocked together, like, Lego blocks and not sort of organically smushed together,
00:08:47
like the Haley Bieber smoothie at Aeroan, right?
00:08:51
Right.
00:08:52
And this feels like that to me.
00:08:54
And I think what I like about it is that it's like self-consciously doing the Swedish songwriter thing where Max Martin was often writing nonsense lyrics.
00:09:04
But these are Americans doing it because they grew up on that.
00:09:09
So they're like, we can play with language.
00:09:11
Make it ours.
00:09:12
Yeah.
00:09:13
It just doesn't-- it just doesn't matter.
00:09:15
I feel like this is an opportunity for me to say something that I said in another setting recently, but I don't know if it's going to come out, so I feel like I need to say it.
00:09:23
When this song came out, what did I call Sabrina Carpenter?
00:09:28
Dupa Leepa.
00:09:29
Dupa Leepa.
00:09:31
You're wrong.
00:09:33
I was wrong.
00:09:34
I recant.
00:09:35
I'm here to recant on stage in front of all these people.
00:09:39
It's not a major year end list.
00:09:40
Yes.
00:09:41
You didn't even love the album the week after it came out.
00:09:43
When I went back to it as I was planning my year end list, the songs that seemed the weakest really felt bolstered by the songs that were like undeniably great.
00:09:52
Um, yeah, Dupa Leepa, first of all, that didn't take off.
00:09:56
No.
00:09:57
Where were y'all when I was calling Sabrina Carpenter Dupa Leep?
00:10:01
Can I say?
00:10:02
Oh, jeez.
00:10:03
That I feel like we have it on good authority that it made it back to Dua Leepa.
00:10:08
Oh, and to Sabrina Carpenter.
00:10:10
And to Sabrina Carpenter.
00:10:11
Oh, I didn't know that.
00:10:12
Did it make it back to Dua?
00:10:14
I know it made it back to Sabrina.
00:10:17
Did you wish you thrilled?
00:10:22
But this leads to my next, to my first pop music, Ness of the Year, which is Popstar Mass, Pop Girl Mass, Sabrina Bizarre Lyrics,
00:10:35
very, very visually intense live performance, shall we say, Chappell Roan, also very intense lyrics, very intense live performance,
00:10:46
and then this.
00:10:48
Just know if I come at you with this,
00:11:07
Junior's taken you out of here.
00:11:14
It's alright.
00:11:15
Okay.
00:11:16
This has been a pretty fascinating year for the next generation of Pop Girls, navigating how to be in public.
00:11:26
I think you're seeing two things happen at the same time.
00:11:29
One, they're inheriting obvious aesthetic and creative.
00:11:36
They're much more advanced, aesthetically and creatively at an earlier stage of their career.
00:11:40
'Cause they all had Tumblr.
00:11:41
Yes, they all had Tumblr.
00:11:43
They grew up on Taylor and Gaga and Katie, all that stuff's already been metabolized.
00:11:49
But when you accelerate as quickly as Chappell did this year and Sabrina did this year, you're gonna have some ruptures.
00:11:56
There was a lot of rupture, especially with Chappell, and especially during the summer.
00:12:00
So I was on Bookleaf for part of the year.
00:12:03
And one of the things when I came back from Bookleaf, I was like, how come no one's written about Chappell just going off on people every 48 hours?
00:12:10
So that was one of the first things that I did.
00:12:12
And I was really forgiving.
00:12:15
I have to say, a lot of people had about enough of the, you know, and you said, fundamentally, that's, look to me,
00:12:25
look, I'm not famous.
00:12:28
You're pretty famous, pretty famous, so I think of it.
00:12:32
But to all of a sudden go from a person who's making tech talks for an audience of 100,000 or 200,000 to playing to an audience of 100,000 or 200,000 in Lollapalooza,
00:12:43
I just don't think like the human, the American mind can't comprehend that.
00:12:48
And so I think number one, I forgive a little bit of friction, a little bit of free song.
00:12:53
I forgive it.
00:12:54
But number two, stand behavior is toxic.
00:12:58
Whatever she's pointing at, whatever photographer she's pointing at, that person's probably not a great person.
00:13:03
Ooh, I'm sorry.
00:13:05
Not a great person, or at least it's not behaving in a way that a great person would behave.
00:13:10
Or, oh, chapel around is going through so much.
00:13:14
It's the same thing that she doesn't know exactly where to put her eggs.
00:13:17
But you have to reset the boundaries somewhere.
00:13:20
And I think in a year, where stand, stand energy on the internet, positive and negative, has been louder than ever.
00:13:27
Resetting is a really valuable thing and maybe some people will take a page from chapel and say, out there, not in here.
00:13:35
You've already disparaged Halsey once, but Halsey may have been the first person to actively scream at their own stands on the street.
00:13:42
Are you sure that wasn't just a label ploy to get her attention?
00:13:47
Oh, y'all are Halsey stands?
00:13:50
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:13:52
I didn't realize that the people who come to Bob Gas live were big Halsey stands.
00:13:58
My bad, forgive me.
00:14:03
So anyway, pop girl, mess, Sabrina, with lyrics, with public presentation, whatever this Christmas special is, do you watch the Christmas festival?
00:14:09
I saw the clips.
00:14:10
Wilde.
00:14:11
Absolutely, wilde.
00:14:12
Chappell.
00:14:13
And dare I say, without going into too much detail, whatever is coming for Addison Ray in 2025, can we just give Addison Ray a hand?
00:14:21
She's just been young, so seriously.
00:14:23
She's doing great.
00:14:25
Addison Ray is doing amazing.
00:14:27
I'm on board.
00:14:28
I know you're on board.
00:14:29
Everyone who's working with Addison Ray, just know we see you and support you.
00:14:35
We're going to do a hard pivot.
00:14:36
Oh, jeez.
00:14:38
When Joe told me what this was going to be, I might point it myself out the room while you're talking about this.
00:14:50
The characters we get online these days, they're complicated.
00:14:57
And it's hard to know who you're laughing at, who you're laughing with, if it's sometimes it feels immoral to be seeing the things that we're seeing,
00:15:09
like I think a lot about Haley Welch.
00:15:12
Hawk Tua for the uninitiated, for those who don't know her government.
00:15:21
This young woman had never been on a plane before, right?
00:15:25
Did you buy them the meme coin?
00:15:26
I did not buy them.
00:15:27
Did you buy the Hawk Tua meme coin in here?
00:15:30
It drinks on us if you lost your life savings.
00:15:32
If you got a red bolt, if you got a red bolt by Haley Welch, it drinks on us.
00:15:38
But watching that ascent, is this healthy, do we feel for this person or are we just taking them through the ringer to then discard them?
00:15:48
You know, I didn't expect her to have a podcast more popular than I was.
00:15:55
I didn't see that in her future, but you feel for someone who's being put through that particular ringer.
00:16:03
Oh, along the line.
00:16:04
Welcome to Hawk Tua.
00:16:05
Welcome to Hawk Tua line.
00:16:06
Talk to a lot.
00:16:07
Talk to a lot.
00:16:08
Yeah, sorry.
00:16:09
Welcome to Talk to a lot.
00:16:10
Have you seen the kids on TikTok who do the kind of like literary analysis of every episode of Talk Tua?
00:16:15
Yes, there is a podcast that just recaps Talk Tua.
00:16:18
Yeah.
00:16:19
Shout-out to those guys.
00:16:20
Close reading.
00:16:21
Talk to a talk.
00:16:22
So Dave Bluntz.
00:16:23
Yeah.
00:16:24
David Bluntz.
00:16:25
First of all, who knows who Dave Bluntz is?
00:16:26
You guys know Dave Bluntz?
00:16:27
You guys know Dave Bluntz?
00:16:28
Five very unhealthy people.
00:16:31
Sorry.
00:16:32
This is what I want to say.
00:16:34
There's a lot of tug of war right now.
00:16:35
Dave Bluntz is going to be a character moving into 2025.
00:16:38
So if you come to pop cast for anything, you come to learn a little bit about the characters you're going to learn a lot about in a couple months, right?
00:16:45
I think is that safe to say?
00:16:47
Yes.
00:16:48
It is safe.
00:16:49
People are going to be fighting about Dave Bluntz for at least the next six weeks.
00:16:56
Six weeks.
00:16:57
And I feel like in the online conversation about whether this guy is for real, whether he's being taken advantage of, whether he's taking advantage of us,
00:17:10
it just doesn't get talked about enough that he is really talented.
00:17:14
Talented.
00:17:15
He's really talented.
00:17:16
He's a really talented guy.
00:17:17
And he did this freestyle on the radar radio.
00:17:22
It's called "Crying in the Kitchen."
00:17:24
And I mean.
00:17:26
I'll brace yourself.
00:17:28
Just brace yourself.
00:17:29
This is actually the important part of this video.
00:17:32
Stand clear of the closing doors, please.
00:17:43
Wait for it.
00:17:45
There.
00:17:46
This.
00:17:47
This is the important part.
00:17:48
It comes with a disclaimer.
00:17:49
I don't know if you guys listen to popular music, I don't know if you listen to rap music.
00:17:52
So the stuff we hear without giving it a second thought is insane.
00:17:58
Imagine your parents when you were a kid knowing what kind of music you listen to now.
00:18:02
First of all, my dad is here.
00:18:04
This was a source of everybody giving up on my dad.
00:18:07
Imagine this was a source of a lot of consternation in my teenage years especially.
00:18:13
I have a very vivid memory of being in the car with my dad talking about, "Jerry, the damage has come clean, the line, leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle."
00:18:24
And my dad was like, "Why do they have to talk about guns?"
00:18:27
And I was like, "It's about art."
00:18:30
So for me, it was shaggy, it wasn't me.
00:18:35
Joe's from Florida.
00:18:36
Sorry.
00:18:37
This might be a false memory, but I'm pretty sure my mom called the radio station to talk about it.
00:18:43
Like on air.
00:18:44
About your enjoyment of this song?
00:18:46
No.
00:18:47
About what it's like to be driving into fidelity.
00:18:49
About infidelity.
00:18:50
To be driving into school and hearing these lyrics.
00:18:53
And now it's sexy red.
00:18:54
So it's like, at least there's some gender balance.
00:18:58
Shout out your mom.
00:18:59
Shout out your mom.
00:19:00
Shout out your mom.
00:19:01
I just want to just the fact that the Dave Blanc's freestyle has a disclaimer.
00:19:04
Do the other on the radar, so I don't have a disclaimer?
00:19:07
Come on.
00:19:08
Journalism.
00:19:09
Did you do a journalism on this or no?
00:19:10
They do not have a disclaimer like this.
00:19:11
I can't lie.
00:19:12
We'll listen to a little bit of it and you'll see why, but I do want to know that Dave Blanc has a gift for both melody and comedy.
00:19:24
Yes, sir, maybe on the radar radio performances, yo, David Blanc's in the building performing crying in the kitchen right here.
00:19:29
I'm going to step out.
00:19:30
He's going to step in.
00:19:31
All right.
00:19:32
Let's go.
00:19:33
Why are you in the background of this video now?
00:19:44
What?
00:19:45
I love him.
00:19:46
What can I say?
00:19:47
Wake up 3a, you'll be the thing about Madison.
00:19:48
She told me she got a new nigga.
00:19:49
His name is Julian.
00:19:50
Give a fuck about a new nigga.
00:19:51
I'm just trying to get my check big.
00:19:52
They just hate me because I'm a fat nigga.
00:19:53
I don't give a fuck because I'm a bitch.
00:19:54
Get her.
00:19:55
Got a white bitch.
00:19:56
She a wrist.
00:19:57
You get the idea.
00:20:16
So he did say I have a white bitch.
00:20:19
She's a wristletter.
00:20:22
And he did.
00:20:24
The only, I don't know if you noticed, the only word they bleep.
00:20:27
This entire verse is Hitler.
00:20:29
All right.
00:20:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, moving on.
00:20:35
That's all you have to say.
00:20:36
That's it.
00:20:37
You're just leaving these people contextless.
00:20:39
I'm just saying, keep an eye out for Dave Blunts in 2025.
00:20:44
Whatever you think he said in that verse, it's three times worse.
00:20:47
Just whatever part you caught, it's three times worse.
00:20:50
There was an amazing tweet that helped send this freestyle viral that said like these 12 seconds of music are the most diabolical thing I've ever heard.
00:20:57
Yeah, there was one day a couple weeks ago that I had this unrepeating house.
00:21:03
I don't know what I was going through.
00:21:07
Real rough.
00:21:08
Let's say you agree with me.
00:21:10
Pass.
00:21:11
I do want to talk about SoundCloud rap 5.0 or 6.0.
00:21:18
Whatever this is a part of, whatever scene this is, whatever it's adjacent to, approximate to one of the things I've really enjoyed as someone who's covered these scenes journalistically is that this current wave seems to have their own internal media system,
00:21:38
right?
00:21:39
And so I just really want to point people to a couple of things.
00:21:42
I want to point people to 42CEO, fruits and acts, sad part.
00:21:49
I was making these up as I was like, yeah, these are like scrabble tiles.
00:21:53
You'd like pull them out of the bag and maybe they're words, maybe they're not.
00:21:56
Hyperpop daily.
00:21:59
There is an on the ground set of people who are covering this with the level of dedication that I like to think that I put in when I was young and they are increasingly part of the ecosystem.
00:22:11
They're zines.
00:22:12
Yeah, they're exactly 42CEO is as famous at Rolling Loud as probably half the artist that he's trying to interview.
00:22:21
They're encouraging to me journalistically, even if I don't know how to make a TikTok, but I'm really, really glad that that exists.
00:22:28
I was especially glad that that existed on one particular day that I thought was this year, but technically it was December of last year.
00:22:35
We know that you're in lists.
00:22:36
Yeah.
00:22:37
December counts for the following.
00:22:38
December counts.
00:22:39
Um, who knows about the Yapo JJ riots?
00:22:42
Oh, yeah.
00:22:43
Fewer people than know about David Bluntz.
00:22:46
Okay.
00:22:47
You're talking about doing events that are free with RSVP, yeah, okay?
00:22:51
Don't do that if you're 19 year old rapper.
00:22:53
Okay.
00:22:54
So, uh, Yapo JJ is a rapper in the sort of next bend ecosystem, Osama, like all those guys.
00:23:00
Who's in the next bend now?
00:23:01
Who likes the next bend album?
00:23:04
More Christmas.
00:23:05
Okay.
00:23:06
What?
00:23:07
Trude Creek, it's McCricket.
00:23:08
You know, 2025, come back to us.
00:23:10
We'll be doing more on this.
00:23:12
Um, so Yapo JJ did his first New York show or was supposed to do his first New York show at the Mercury Lounge, which is maybe smaller than this, um, announced free with RSVP.
00:23:23
Now, when I saw that, I was like, oh, this is going to be a mess.
00:23:26
Obviously, hundreds of kids are going to show up.
00:23:29
I remember driving up, and as I'm driving looking for parking, I already see 300 kids out on the street.
00:23:36
This is on Houston.
00:23:37
It's out on the street.
00:23:38
You've seen children of men, you know, the shot with a, he's driving, that was John pulling up to Mercury.
00:23:42
It really was.
00:23:43
And I was like, I should really park my car far from here because like, whatever it's about to happen, I don't think my car should be near it.
00:23:49
So I went a couple blocks away and barked.
00:23:51
Uh, I came back by the time I got back.
00:23:54
Everybody I knew who was inside was like, bro, I'm trying to get out like this is bad.
00:23:58
And everybody who was outside was fighting at the door to get in.
00:24:01
And in a certain point, they removed the, um, metal detector, like a full metal detector from the door of the Mercury Lounge, the kids pulled it out into the streets,
00:24:13
jumped on it in the middle of Houston and tore it into pieces.
00:24:18
Now at this point, I don't know where Yapo JJ is, I don't know if he's in the basement, I don't know if he's on stage, I don't know if he's being escorted to an undisclosed location.
00:24:27
But it turned ugly.
00:24:29
Kids were climbing up the, um, what is the thing on the outside of the fire scape.
00:24:34
Climbing up the fire?
00:24:35
Got the footage.
00:24:36
We have the footage.
00:24:37
So wait.
00:24:38
One, two, three.
00:24:39
One, two, three.
00:24:40
One, two, three.
00:24:41
That's me.
00:24:42
I'm like right just out of, out of camera on this.
00:24:45
I've never seen you wear that fit of jeans.
00:24:47
That's true.
00:24:48
That's accurate.
00:24:49
Um, I'm standing right there and I am really thinking hard about my life choices.
00:24:55
That led me to that.
00:24:56
But, uh, needless to say, there was no Yapo JJ show that night, but he was actually more important for the lore that this happened than the concert happened, because if the concert happened,
00:25:06
it probably wouldn't have been a, you know, yeah, but, and, and here we are, one of your most memorable music moments of the year.
00:25:13
I have more footage on my phone if anybody wants to see it.
00:25:16
Joe, what do you have next?
00:25:17
All right.
00:25:18
My number three music moment of the year.
00:25:19
I'm going to turn Ernest for a second.
00:25:21
Seriously.
00:25:22
Like Ernest and Hardy and Morgan Wallet Ernest?
00:25:24
Yes.
00:25:25
Yes.
00:25:26
Okay.
00:25:27
Uh, sometimes you're writing about an artist and you're trying to make sense of them.
00:25:32
We get to spend a little bit of time with them, but not that much.
00:25:35
Like, how much time do you think it really takes to get to know someone like weeks, months, years?
00:25:40
We usually have hours, sometimes hours across the span of a day or two.
00:25:44
Yeah.
00:25:45
Yeah.
00:25:46
This is it.
00:25:47
My background music.
00:25:48
Uh, I was writing about McGee.
00:25:49
We like McGee.
00:25:50
There we go.
00:25:52
That's.
00:25:53
Yeah.
00:25:54
He's.
00:25:55
That's been with the guitar.
00:25:56
Your number one album.
00:25:57
Yeah.
00:25:58
My number one album of 2024.
00:26:00
Sometimes you're spending time with an artist and they're not saying much or they're not saying much that really letting you know who they are, but they can play you music.
00:26:10
And we're in me and McGee, we're in LA, we're in Silver Lake, writing in his car, real beater, like one of the dirtiest cars I've ever, ever seen, like, and Joe's from Florida.
00:26:20
Yeah.
00:26:21
Like, this is, this is like, this was not a nice car.
00:26:25
He's made a lot of money this year.
00:26:27
I presume hasn't spent it on a car yet, but he was playing me some music and he played me in a song that I've never heard before.
00:26:34
It's a cult favorite.
00:26:36
You guys know Home Alone.
00:26:38
I'm going somewhere with this.
00:26:39
The movie Home Alone, holiday, holiday film.
00:26:41
This is Catherine O'Hara's sister.
00:26:43
So the mom and Home Alone, her sister put out an album in 1988 called Miss America, not tapped in.
00:26:52
And her name is Mary Margaret O'Hara and he played me this song, "Body's a Trouble," and all of a sudden his album made perfect sense to me.
00:27:01
He was like, I love this song because it doesn't sound like music.
00:27:06
You're not sure where it's going.
00:27:07
She doesn't seem like she's listening to the track behind her.
00:27:11
She seems too nervous to sing.
00:27:14
Yeah.
00:27:15
And he started playing it for me and we just sat in silence, driving, you know, rounds over like, playing this, playing this song and it is probably my most listened to song over the year by the woman from Home Alone's sister.
00:27:30
But it just really, it was the skeleton key to me understanding what he was trying to do on his album and maybe you'll hear it in the song and maybe you won't.
00:27:39
But the other person this reminded me of who I also spent a lot of my year thinking about and this is going to be a weird one to hear the song but it's a young thug.
00:27:47
This is like she's doing things with her vocal delivery and her relationship to the beat that only the greatest artists of each generation do where they break the rules and yet they're still like really tapping into something.
00:28:02
So this song really only works if you listen to all five minutes of it because she gains confidence as she goes but I'm just going to play a little bit and then I highly recommend maybe go listen to it when you get home.
00:28:15
You ever seen this?
00:28:38
You didn't think you were going to hear anything like this tonight did you?
00:28:52
I just want to push somebody, my body won't let you just want to move somebody,
00:29:07
body won't let you want to steal somebody, body won't let you out.
00:29:19
You get the idea, right?
00:29:23
And it just keeps building like this for five minutes.
00:29:29
You hear the McGee in this?
00:29:40
Anyway, go home and get the payoff when she really finds herself at the end.
00:29:45
Very Margaret O'Hara, the sister of Catherine O'Hara, the mom from home.
00:29:49
How many plays on this YouTube video besides you and McGee?
00:29:51
Quite a few.
00:29:52
289,000 views over 18 years.
00:29:56
So not great, I'm like an annual basis, but yeah.
00:30:00
Yeah, I get it.
00:30:01
A lot of error embedded into that vocal and obviously that's one of the things that's so fascinating about McGee is the way that he deploys error or things that we would think of as wrong to my ear in like a gexy in mode.
00:30:16
Some I see over there, I saw folks at the gex show.
00:30:18
I see y'all.
00:30:21
You were there too.
00:30:22
Big night.
00:30:23
Big night.
00:30:24
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:30:26
Also that sort of ponderous sense of melodrama that many people find unappealing, but I personally find appealing.
00:30:35
Yes, real fun, real talk.
00:30:38
Okay, great.
00:30:39
She'll perform at the next Bobcat show.
00:30:41
Yes, great.
00:30:42
We're going to get her out of retirement.
00:30:44
Huge.
00:30:45
Hi, this is Laurie Liebovich, editor of Well at the New York Times.
00:30:50
There's a lot of misinformation and health and wellness space, but at the New York Times, no matter what the topic, we apply the same journalistic standards to everything we write about,
00:31:00
whether it's the gut microbiome or how to get a good night's sleep, even if we're talking about something like, is it bad for me to drink coffee on an empty stomach?
00:31:10
Something that our readers get when they dig into a well article has been vetted.
00:31:15
Our reporters are consulting experts, calling dozens of people, doing the research.
00:31:20
It can go on for months so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health.
00:31:27
We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us.
00:31:34
If you already subscribed, thank you.
00:31:36
If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com/subscribe.
00:31:43
Let's talk about the opposite of error, literally the opposite of error.
00:31:48
Okay, so as I mentioned, ad nauseam, I was on book leave for most of the year or a bunch of the year.
00:31:55
And I was like, I'm not reviewing anything, I'm not going anything.
00:31:57
And so I went to see the Missy Elliott, or did anybody see the Missy Elliott tour at Barclays?
00:32:02
No?
00:32:03
Wow.
00:32:04
Real crickets.
00:32:05
I was saying the year you were born is really important.
00:32:09
Okay.
00:32:10
I went to see, y'all know who Missy Elliott is.
00:32:13
Okay.
00:32:14
I went all along in one second.
00:32:16
All you people who know who Missy Elliott is but didn't go to the tour, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when we say Missy Elliott?
00:32:24
Good.
00:32:25
Okay.
00:32:26
That's the one.
00:32:27
You were there though.
00:32:28
You were there.
00:32:29
I went to the Missy tour and Karen, our editor, was there.
00:32:33
Did I go with Karen?
00:32:35
Yeah.
00:32:36
Sure.
00:32:37
And at the end of the night, I turned to her and I said, I have to write about this.
00:32:41
I was that moved.
00:32:42
It was that a rolling.
00:32:43
Missy Elliott is one of the most consistently inventive and yet somehow still underrated presences in the history of hip-hop.
00:32:52
Even though she's in the literal rock and roll hall of fame.
00:32:54
But somehow, I feel like she's still underappreciated.
00:32:58
Had never had lined a tour.
00:32:59
And had never had lined a tour.
00:33:02
This person is responsible for like three to five of the best songs ever made.
00:33:07
At least, and two, maybe two and a half, incredible albums, never had lined a tour.
00:33:14
This was like a military exercise.
00:33:16
The number of dancers, the costume changes, the set changes.
00:33:21
It was unreal.
00:33:22
It was the stadium level show in an arena still.
00:33:26
But the level of inventiveness, creativity.
00:33:30
You also interviewed her around this time about some of the choices that she made.
00:33:36
This show was so good that it shook me out of my book leave super and had me staying up till four in the morning, just like the good old days where I used to come here to review concerts.
00:33:47
Writing a concert review for the love of the game.
00:33:50
True.
00:33:51
That's how I am.
00:33:52
So that, to me, it was an interesting year in live music.
00:33:57
There are shows that I loved, Sabrina Live, Chapel Live, Zach Bryan Live, Stevie Wonder, mostly.
00:34:06
Sorry.
00:34:07
No shots on Stevie, you know, one of the judges against perfection.
00:34:11
Yeah, you know, there's a little bit of in the middle there.
00:34:15
And also one of the worst concerts I've ever wanted to buy one of my favorite album makers, Boss Man Delo.
00:34:23
Sorry, Apologies to Boss Man Delo.
00:34:24
Was that here?
00:34:26
It was at the Grammer Theatre in the sense that it was anywhere at all.
00:34:31
I don't know if it congealed to quite to that point.
00:34:35
Anyway, Missy, if you have a chance, if she goes back on the road, strong recommend.
00:34:40
That was an extremely memorable night from a guy who has been out to too many shows over too many years.
00:34:47
Joe, what do you have next?
00:34:51
It was a weird year for rap music.
00:34:53
We had a hard time, I think, you and I.
00:34:56
You know, even the thing you just said, you missy Elliott, top of your list, 25 years old, Boss Man Delo, new artist, bottom of your list,
00:35:06
right?
00:35:07
We had a hard time finding things to grab on to, I think, in this top heavy year.
00:35:12
Top and bottom heavy.
00:35:13
It's a year of resettling, I think.
00:35:16
You know, you have generational icons, you have Kendrick and Drake being mad at each other.
00:35:21
And really what you're seeing there is the last gasp of the old power system, trying to figure out who's going to be able to control the legacy and the narrative.
00:35:30
But underneath that, and we talk about this a lot, there's just not yet a totally compelling rising class that's going to take those spots.
00:35:39
And I thought, a fellow writer, Alphonse Bier, a pitchfork, put this well in his year and rap list, where he said it felt like the mainstream on the underground had never been more disconnected,
00:35:50
and that there's this huge space in the middle.
00:35:52
And yet here I am, a guy of 36 years old.
00:35:58
Just trying to...
00:35:59
Rubbing in, why don't you?
00:36:00
Rubbing in.
00:36:01
Just trying to find something to grasp on to, and sometimes, you just want comfort.
00:36:05
And what I found that comfort in was the latest album from Saw Baby.
00:36:11
This is in Atlanta rapper.
00:36:13
Had a huge moment.
00:36:14
You know I did the first ever Saw Baby interview?
00:36:15
I remember.
00:36:16
I remember.
00:36:17
I was there.
00:36:18
So, for those of you not familiar, Saw Baby put out a video called Pull Up With A Stick.
00:36:24
He's from Chicago, moved as a young person to Atlanta, but out this extremely jarring music video for Pull Up With A Stick,
00:36:35
it resulted in the entire housing project where it was shot being raided and essentially torn down because of the amount of firearms in the video.
00:36:45
There's, you know, a detective in Atlanta said, like, in court said, you know, you see this video and you think it's Iraq or Afghanistan, but it's the middle of Atlanta.
00:36:57
So he never quite reached, I think, the stardom that was promised.
00:37:03
Yeah, I mean, Saw Baby, at that time, seemed to be someone who had figured out, I don't mean this in a negative way, but like, there was a young son conundrum at this moment, which is how can someone who is so kind of,
00:37:15
like, so generous with flow, so inventive, so creative, such a barrier breaker, but somehow hadn't quite figured out how to coalesce that around it, a hit or, like,
00:37:25
coherent song structure.
00:37:26
And Saw Baby's album, that first one or the first tape, seemed like potentially the solutions of that problem.
00:37:33
And so he sort of settled into, as many great rappers, especially of this era, do of being like a cult hero, an underground artist, comfortable where he was, not chasing hits.
00:37:44
And then here we are in 2024, as I said, young thug, big part of my year, I think, as a music fan, if you were paying attention to this,
00:37:54
you know, multi-year trial that he went through.
00:37:57
And there was just this vacuum in Atlanta rap, which we've just been waiting for someone to fill.
00:38:03
And because he came up in the footsteps of young thug, sound wise, he had a hard time outrunning that.
00:38:10
But with thug gone and not putting out a lot of music, I feel like that opened the lane for him to once again make music that is more mainstream, frankly, like less experimental than the mix tapes he's put out in between.
00:38:26
And there's a song in particular called "Roll With Me" that's just, again, one of my most listened two songs of the year since it came out only a couple weeks ago, yeah.
00:38:36
And because you can hear him working it out in real time, it starts extremely generic, he's just saying words, he says Walgreens at one point,
00:38:46
I think.
00:38:47
Yeah, Sabrina Carpenter's right.
00:38:49
Exactly, yeah.
00:38:50
And he's, he's feel him sort of working his way through connecting with the beat.
00:38:56
And then when he hits the pocket and starts playing off of the piano, like it just has that bounce to it and it sort of took me back, straight back to 2017, where I would like to live longer.
00:39:08
So just listen to a little bit of that.
00:39:11
I like it.
00:39:13
I like the "Walk With Me" style.
00:39:14
I like it.
00:39:15
Okay.
00:39:16
I like it.
00:39:17
Yeah.
00:39:18
Bitch, I'm a walking stone.
00:39:19
Bitch, I'm a.
00:39:20
Yeah.
00:39:21
Bitch, I'm a walking stone.
00:39:22
Bitch, I'm a.
00:39:23
Yeah.
00:39:24
Bitch, I'm a walking stone.
00:39:25
I'll be.
00:39:26
I'll be.
00:39:27
And now he's just off,
00:39:38
like now he's got him,
00:39:48
you know?
00:39:54
You know about the yelming wine you're up on that?
00:40:00
No, it's a good.
00:40:01
I don't know.
00:40:02
I don't know.
00:40:03
Again, finish this on your own time, but there's just something about music made spontaneously.
00:40:20
If you've been in, if you've followed how a lot of these rappers record, you know that they're doing impressionism in real time.
00:40:29
And when they hit their stride, there's just nothing sweeter than like feeling them lock in.
00:40:34
And I really got that out of this song in a way that moved me and made me think about the rap music I loved 10 years ago.
00:40:43
That was very beautiful, man.
00:40:45
That was really touching.
00:40:47
You tell me that you're turning into one of those like crusty OGs, who's just like these kids, these kids, I can't stand what they're doing.
00:40:54
That's a year of you becoming that.
00:40:55
A young kid made good, you know?
00:40:57
Togies.
00:40:58
Okay, my fourth thing, speaking of young kids making good, how young exactly?
00:41:04
That's a great question.
00:41:05
Okay, so I wanted to talk about TikTok briefly because I thought one of the things I wrote about TikTok a couple years ago was that and our friend Jordan is here, former TikTok employee.
00:41:15
So you tell me how this went over in the office back in 2022.
00:41:19
That TikTok was going to be sort of bad for music fundamentally because it was going to attach other things to snippets of songs and people wouldn't necessarily fall in love with the performer of the song as much as the snippet of the thing,
00:41:30
the video that's attached to it.
00:41:33
As we saw with like a Steve Lacey, who?
00:41:39
Oh, Halsey and Steve Lacey, sorry, have you guys listened to Bob Cast?
00:41:46
So I want to talk briefly about one TikTok that kind of reversed that, but then I want to show another TikTok that's just speaking diabolical, speaking of tape lines.
00:41:56
So there was, did you guys see the Brazilian, the by-way funk guy who was walking through his neighborhood, singing a capella and clapping that TikTok,
00:42:06
nobody saw that sort of, anybody?
00:42:09
Yeah.
00:42:10
One person saw it.
00:42:11
Okay.
00:42:12
Your YouTube page is twisted.
00:42:13
It really is.
00:42:14
It is diabolical.
00:42:15
So this is a fundamentally unknown artist singing a capella.
00:42:21
If I sing in the part of that part, does that ring a bell for anybody?
00:42:26
No.
00:42:27
Damn.
00:42:28
I didn't think I'd be singing on the stage with SOBs to crickets.
00:42:31
Anyway, I'll drop it in the chat, what it is.
00:42:34
And this was a guy who, nobody knew who he was, this TikTok went so crazy that my feed was filled with copycats being like that one guy, one Brazilian guy on my 4U page,
00:42:46
redoing his song.
00:42:48
Within two weeks, he's filming on a rooftop with Mr.
00:42:52
Beast who flew down to Brazil.
00:42:54
And now I assume that guy is richer than us.
00:42:57
So Shadow's in...
00:42:58
He earned it by hanging out with Mr.
00:42:59
Beast.
00:43:00
Yes, true.
00:43:01
That's true.
00:43:02
He's MC Menor JP, look him up.
00:43:05
I do think we should show this other TikTok.
00:43:08
This is one of the most sinister things that I consumed all year.
00:43:15
Just watch the whole thing.
00:43:16
We're just going to watch the whole thing.
00:43:18
Shoes.
00:43:19
We're going to dollars.
00:43:20
It's gay keeping the jeans because there's no jeans left like this on earth.
00:43:24
Rare Deorbell.
00:43:25
Heady Deor.
00:43:26
H&M T shirt that I've worn for two weeks straight and I refuse to change.
00:43:29
More Shadow Fives It, 5,000 less Catholic medals, a Saline that goes channeling with my birthday, Brandy Melville, and G.O.
00:43:35
That's a one rat's nut.
00:43:36
Van's old school, Lux, $80, cool vintage belt, I stole from my ex-girlfriend, Comic Client underwear, Alexander D.
00:43:42
Genova T, I believe it belongs to Noah, 100, 2007, Be Your Home, Heady Salmón, 1000, 2014, Heady Salmón, Saint Laurent jacket, $4,200, the jeans will be gate-kept because all the low-wasted,
00:43:55
gintite jeans do not exist anymore, and I don't tell anybody where to get them.
00:43:58
We've bought them all from Bosnia.
00:43:59
Bosnia and Italy, they have all the low-wasted skinny jeans.
00:44:02
Walk me through your fits and tell me how much everything- Okay.
00:44:04
So we want to welcome our special guests, the- Okay, first of all, who knows who the help are.
00:44:11
More people- Okay, more people than know like Dave Bluntz, okay, um, what do y'all think about that?
00:44:19
Okay, so first of all, Emma, who is doing the interview, Emma Rogue runs a store in the library side, I profiled her a couple years ago, she does a lot of these fit checks with sort of like random people,
00:44:30
and then every now and again a quote unquote celebrity will arrive, and then these guys, um, cool vintage belt, I stole from my ex,
00:44:41
great story, um, what is happening here?
00:44:44
Is this, is this what's come of fame, is this what's become of fame, which part, I mean, like, okay, I'm sorry, this has me in my feelings.
00:44:53
The thing that I struggle with is they are saying so hard to be, we're cool, we're above it, we're posted, we're taking your street videos,
00:45:04
which are usually with like cute, kawaii raver kids, and they're, they're Ali Baba Express fur boots, but we're throwing in a $4,200 at Eastlamane jacket,
00:45:14
and we're talking about buying skinny, oh y'all, you're wearing baggy bonsyaga, y'all wearing vet-mont, yeah the hell will fuck your vet-mont, I'm getting my jeans from Bosnia,
00:45:25
they're so skinny, like I can fit my entire jeans in one leg of your vet-mont, leave eyes where you constructed, same, yeah, you all, you are definitely wearing Bosnia and jeans tonight,
00:45:37
to be fair, you're often wearing Bosnia and jeans, um, address for my figure, who's, who's, excuse you, call me old and call me thick,
00:45:50
jeez, you said thick, okay, yes, slim thick, that's actually true, um, so speaking of slim slim here, um, who's this for,
00:46:00
fans of the help, who's this for, like, here's the thing, part of this, like doing parody,
00:46:10
right, it's not supposed to come off as, you can't, like, you're not supposed to be so blatantly doing that, is one of your favorite music moments of the year?
00:46:19
Yes, you know, many times I watch this video, now, now keep in mind, I'm systemically with espresso, I'm just trying to understand it, it's system,
00:46:29
I'm systemically unwell, I understand, but I watch this video 50 times, easily I've watched this video, save this guy, no, I just, I keep watching it in hopes that there's a thread in there that I've missed that will allow me to unravel it and understand it,
00:46:46
but sometimes you just kind of come off like a chud, sorry, anyway, great time, watch, you know, stream the help, actually not,
00:46:56
and they're not terrible, they're okay, they're like not terrible, if you say so, they're not terrible, I'm sorry, you guys like Dimesquare, Bosnian Jeans,
00:47:07
put that on your e-bay alerts, Bosnian Jeans, Bosnian Jeans, that's our next podcast, it's gonna be called Bosnian Jeans,
00:47:19
I'm gonna talk about my actual favorite music of the year, that is my actual favorite music of the year, whatever that is, that's jazz, whatever that is,
00:47:30
that's jazz, 2024, all right, mid-December, no, that's where we are now, right,
00:47:40
yeah, this time last year, Playboy Cardi, put out a song called 2024, oh, sorry, they are paying attention to Playboy Cardi,
00:47:51
I know they are, they are taking a standard Playboy Cardi outfit, cutting it in half, and each one of them is wearing half of it, that's real vamp life,
00:48:03
right there, no one made better music this year than Playboy Cardi while dancing at a gas station,
00:48:13
true, true, so gas station Cardi, Halsey, Playboy Cardi, this art, and we'll get there, yeah, there's one more that you guys like that we don't like,
00:48:30
you know what I'm talking about, 2024, he put out the song, December 14th, 2023, he called it 2024, he said the name of his album,
00:48:41
I am music, music's coming, 2024, everyone's like, all right, Playboy Cardi, he hasn't put out an album since Christmas of 1942,
00:48:53
he starts with this, he's at the gas station, when he gets to the, play attention to the, when he gets to the gas station, because that's when the song gets really good, first season,
00:49:05
the frunk, which is the front trunk, from the front to the gas station,
00:49:15
to the clear port, I'm gonna talk us through the outfit, a lot of balancing, I forget who made the top,
00:49:28
I used to make the top By holding the point there.
00:49:31
She's on it.
00:49:32
She's gonna leave the garage soon and go to the gas station.
00:49:42
Also only rapper smoking cigarettes.
00:49:48
SIGARETS BACK.
00:49:50
They're going to get gas.
00:49:52
There we are.
00:49:55
We're at the gas station.
00:49:56
Come on.
00:50:01
Come on.
00:50:01
Should we?
00:50:02
We can do it later if you guys want to do TikToks.
00:50:08
We'll do it later.
00:50:09
So this was awesome.
00:50:14
Someone was asking if we were going to do the...
00:50:16
Okay, so he's at the gas station.
00:50:21
It turned out this was a precursor to one of the greatest gas station moments in music history.
00:50:26
You guys like Camila Cabello?
00:50:30
She put out this song.
00:50:40
Do they listen to the show?
00:50:42
It's called I Love It.
00:50:43
Unbelievable.
00:50:44
It's a crazy song.
00:50:47
It's a crazy song.
00:50:48
Genuinely an incredible song.
00:50:49
We've talked about error quite a bit tonight.
00:50:52
That's the through line.
00:50:53
There is less.
00:50:54
This is actually somewhere out beyond error.
00:50:57
Because it is so curated.
00:51:00
But every piece of it is wrong.
00:51:02
That it somehow comes out on the other side.
00:51:05
Like genuinely bordering on avant-garde.
00:51:07
This is produced in part by Alguincho, who made the early Rosalía music.
00:51:13
This is a big brain in music, right?
00:51:16
But he's working with Camila Cabello.
00:51:19
And you're like, "What's going on here?"
00:51:22
There were all these clips that came out before the song came out.
00:51:25
And everyone was like, "Yeah, she's ripping off of what's her face."
00:51:28
And then there's a sample of Gucci Mane lemonade.
00:51:35
That doesn't fit at all.
00:51:37
It's very strange.
00:51:38
And then the song dies down.
00:51:40
We're going to listen to it.
00:51:41
It dies down.
00:51:42
And then it builds back up.
00:51:43
And it builds back up.
00:51:44
And in a song that is all about mess and noise and wrongness.
00:51:50
Playbar Cardi comes in.
00:51:53
He's at the gas station.
00:51:55
Again, he's at the gas station.
00:51:57
Actually, we'll do this before we play it, because it led to this headline.
00:52:01
Camila Cabello paid gas station attendant to stay open for a Playbar Cardi issue.
00:52:05
I love it, video scene.
00:52:06
This is...
00:52:07
Okay.
00:52:08
If you want to understand the relationship between Camila Cabello and Sabrina Carpenter, you compare this headline to the Sabrina Carpenter headlines about getting that cardinal fired for shooting that erotic video in the church.
00:52:22
Is that when she said...
00:52:23
So I heard I got the mayor.
00:52:24
I heard I got the mayor invited.
00:52:25
Yeah.
00:52:26
So Sabrina Carpenter.
00:52:29
A genuine edgelord.
00:52:31
Yeah.
00:52:32
This.
00:52:33
It's a guy at a gas station.
00:52:34
Now, this is the quote from the story, which she said on Los Angeles's Power 106.
00:52:39
She had something happen with his plane.
00:52:41
It was in St.
00:52:42
chaos with the video yet.
00:52:43
Something happened with his plane.
00:52:44
Okay.
00:52:45
We had to find a place to film his part.
00:52:47
We ended up paying the guy who worked at the gas station to let us stay open with us.
00:52:50
He got there and my mom...
00:52:51
Yeah.
00:52:52
The gas station wasn't closing.
00:52:53
No.
00:52:54
You guys have been to gas stations to look like that.
00:52:56
They're open all night.
00:52:57
He got there and my mom had the iPad video screen and was low key directing it.
00:53:01
We had to beg the crew to stay.
00:53:02
But Playboy was so sweet.
00:53:04
So this is how you know Camila Cabello has never met Carpenter.
00:53:06
Yeah.
00:53:07
Because she calls him Playboy.
00:53:08
Playboy, yeah.
00:53:09
But Playboy was so sweet.
00:53:10
My mom was in love with him.
00:53:12
And when you see how he performed at the gas station, you understand how a mother could fall in love.
00:53:18
So this build up...
00:53:20
[Music]
00:53:30
So much happening here.
00:53:32
[Music]
00:53:38
It's like seven music videos you've already seen put together.
00:53:40
You think Addison Ray watched this and it was like, "I got this."
00:53:43
I'm not dressed.
00:53:44
I'm not dressed.
00:53:45
[Music]
00:53:51
This is my favorite music moment of the year.
00:53:53
Just this build up where he's just sang "Over and Over."
00:53:56
Oh, that's a hit by Air Jack.
00:53:58
And I think.
00:53:59
[Music]
00:54:01
Oh, you got a runner.
00:54:03
Yeah.
00:54:04
Oh, you got a runner.
00:54:06
Oh, you some runner.
00:54:08
[Music]
00:54:16
This is the first time I've ever met.
00:54:18
[Music]
00:54:21
[Music]
00:54:23
[Music]
00:54:30
That's the point.
00:54:31
[Music]
00:54:36
[Music]
00:54:46
She's pretending like she knows the words to his partner.
00:54:48
He's pretending he knows the words to his partner.
00:54:51
[Music]
00:54:53
First of all, playbook.
00:54:54
Come on.
00:54:55
Yeah, no.
00:54:57
That's the best music moment of the year.
00:54:59
I know I'm clowning Cardi, but Cardi obviously like a genuinely inventive rapper.
00:55:03
But I will say, what does it say about Camila Cabello that she has been responsible for the mainstream crossover song of Young Thug?
00:55:09
Many years ago with Havana, a dismal record.
00:55:13
Oh, yeah.
00:55:14
Genuinely unpleasant to listen to.
00:55:16
And I love it.
00:55:18
Genuinely, like, truly the most avant-garde pop single of the year.
00:55:21
But what is the through line with Camila Cabello?
00:55:24
She loves Atlanta rap.
00:55:26
Does she?
00:55:27
And as much as she loves Shawn Mendes?
00:55:29
That much?
00:55:31
I really don't know where the pressure points are with anyone tonight.
00:55:36
All right, we'll save it for Q&A.
00:55:38
Okay, I'm going to close out.
00:55:39
And mine is like, it's more a vibe.
00:55:42
It's a vibe.
00:55:43
It's a more a vibe than a thing.
00:55:44
You're all vibes tonight.
00:55:46
And you're all music criticism.
00:55:49
Okay.
00:55:51
Go off JP.
00:55:52
All right.
00:55:53
It's been a tough year, as I said at the beginning of the show.
00:55:58
And I do feel like it's been the year of beef.
00:56:02
And you might be thinking, oh, Drake and Kendrick, obviously defining the shape of the year and ruining each other's lives.
00:56:10
Well, public characters.
00:56:12
And puning each other's characters.
00:56:15
That's really just, that's scratching the surface.
00:56:18
And when I was thinking about what I actually wanted to do for this show, I was like, we should just do 10 beefs of the year.
00:56:25
We could have done that.
00:56:26
We could have done that.
00:56:27
That's obvious.
00:56:28
I have some non-obvious beefs.
00:56:30
Let's hear them.
00:56:31
I'm just going to run through some non-obvious beef.
00:56:33
Well, obvious enough.
00:56:34
Maddie Healy and Azalea Banks.
00:56:38
Great.
00:56:39
Team Who.
00:56:40
Yeah, Team Who.
00:56:42
Team No One, huh?
00:56:45
What is the stand name for a 1975 team?
00:56:48
Cheer if your team is Azalea Banks.
00:56:52
All right.
00:56:53
1975 fans.
00:56:54
Cheer if your team Maddiea Healy.
00:56:56
Okay.
00:56:57
All right.
00:56:58
Nobody.
00:56:59
Nobody's going to get jumped tonight.
00:57:01
Yeah.
00:57:02
That was, that was a vicious thing that happened on Twitter.
00:57:05
X.com.
00:57:06
Yeah.
00:57:07
You guys still on x.com?
00:57:08
Yeah.
00:57:09
That's, that's things still happen there.
00:57:10
Azalea's having a great year on X, I think.
00:57:16
I do want to show the next thing, which is, should I do all the long list?
00:57:19
And then we'll end with that?
00:57:20
Run and go.
00:57:21
Run through the long list.
00:57:22
We're going to close with a song.
00:57:24
A song.
00:57:25
A piece of music.
00:57:28
Kamala versus Trump.
00:57:29
In a music terms.
00:57:32
New Jeans versus Hybe.
00:57:36
Protect New Jeans.
00:57:37
Protect Hybe.
00:57:38
Just kidding.
00:57:39
Just kidding.
00:57:40
Protect New Jeans at all costs.
00:57:43
Ray Gunn, the break dancer versus America.
00:57:47
J.Lo versus J.Lo.
00:57:49
If y'all watched those movies.
00:57:53
That Trump, honestly, more avant-garde than Kamala Cabello and Playboy Cardi.
00:57:58
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:59
The J.Lo movie.
00:58:00
Like, people throw that around.
00:58:01
I feel like it's like such a lazy thing for a pop critic when something's weird to be like, that's avant-garde.
00:58:05
That J.Lo, the meta-documentary.
00:58:09
They're going to be showing that in MoMA in 25 years.
00:58:13
Like, it's going to be like an anthology film archive.
00:58:15
Is it going to be a fucking anthology on "Routledge Press" about that thing?
00:58:19
Anyway.
00:58:20
Watch that if you haven't.
00:58:22
Loki, Ariana Grande, and Cynthia Rebo.
00:58:26
I know they're holding hands.
00:58:28
Can I-- I know they're holding fingers, but something's not right in that house.
00:58:35
They only have 14 more months to pretend to be friends.
00:58:39
Thank you all for supporting my wicked-- my learning about wicked on podcast.
00:58:44
I appreciate that.
00:58:45
You're not happy about that.
00:58:46
I got a lot of positive feedback.
00:58:48
I'll forward you the notes.
00:58:50
People said Joe was wrong about the music.
00:58:53
More and more people are saying Joe is wrong about the music and wicked.
00:59:00
Cardi B versus Offset.
00:59:04
Honestly, I wish they'd get back together.
00:59:06
Stir it up again.
00:59:07
Yeah, just rough.
00:59:08
Really, really rough.
00:59:09
Everyone versus Meek Mill.
00:59:11
Everyone versus Tommy Richmond versus everyone.
00:59:15
Y'all remember Tommy Richmond?
00:59:17
Dark here for Tommy Richmond, unfortunately.
00:59:20
And us versus Charlie XCX.
00:59:25
Shh.
00:59:27
I don't want to hear it.
00:59:28
No questions.
00:59:29
But the last thing, I have written extensively about Zach Bryan.
00:59:34
I secured the only real interview with Zach Bryan, I think.
00:59:37
If you don't count the Rolling Stone Springsteen thing.
00:59:39
Oh, yeah, you and Springsteen interviewed Zach Bryan.
00:59:42
Yeah, separately.
00:59:43
My favorite musicians.
00:59:45
Zach Bryan and Bruce Wayne.
00:59:46
Zach Bryan, I've been following for a long time.
00:59:49
I had the good fortune to spend time with him and interview him.
00:59:53
Big tour this year, went out to the tour opener in Chicago, I think.
00:59:57
Right before I went on leave.
00:59:59
Zach Bryan had a tough fourth quarter.
01:00:02
He had a tough Q4.
01:00:04
He, as many of you know, is romantically involved with Brianna Chicken Fry.
01:00:09
From Barstool Sports, the BFF spot.
01:00:12
We do a chair of, you know, Brianna chicken.
01:00:17
We're learning a lot as like market research.
01:00:21
A lot of you in research.
01:00:24
They did not survive 2024.
01:00:27
And they're the Cardi B and Offset of the West Village.
01:00:32
No, of West Village.
01:00:34
Of West Village.
01:00:35
If you don't know that there's a the there your Cardi B and Offset.
01:00:39
Okay, and so Brianna Chicken Fry has, she's got support.
01:00:44
She's got shooters.
01:00:45
She really does.
01:00:47
And Zach Bryan is most assuredly they're up.
01:00:51
So let's play a little bit of a little smanger featuring the vocal stylings of Stool Presidente,
01:01:03
Dave Port, and Pizza Scholar, Dave Portnoy.
01:01:06
Yeah, you said you remember everything.
01:01:11
Just not.
01:01:12
You forgot about your wedding ring.
01:01:14
This ain't it some tweet.
01:01:15
I ain't coming subliminal.
01:01:16
You've great at being country.
01:01:18
Without the second, country.
01:01:19
Country is plus your face.
01:01:21
Simple addition.
01:01:22
The way you did her wrong man in second.
01:01:24
I'm a chicken chicken.
01:01:26
That gives you an adult circumcision.
01:01:28
Think we in Kentucky where I fry you like some chicken.
01:01:31
But you're from okay.
01:01:32
Well, okay, if you say so.
01:01:34
Kinda ironic 'cause soon you gain kale.
01:01:37
Even shorter than me.
01:01:38
So sorry, this a low blow.
01:01:40
I'll just turn this place, do an Oklahoma spoke show.
01:01:43
I mean, kind of a bar.
01:01:45
Kind of a bar.
01:01:46
Oklahoma spoke show, one of the great Zach Bryan songs.
01:01:49
Why is there a bottle of the Ace of Spades on the visualizer for this video?
01:01:53
What does that have to do with anything?
01:01:54
Do I miss a reference?
01:01:57
I don't really have anything to say about this.
01:01:59
This exists.
01:02:00
I gotta take this off the screen.
01:02:01
This exists.
01:02:04
Look, in a year that people were at each other's throats.
01:02:08
They were rassling.
01:02:09
They were tussling.
01:02:10
They were squabbling.
01:02:12
It's tough.
01:02:14
Maybe a little bit of comic relief woven into the squabble is what we need.
01:02:19
We didn't squabble this year.
01:02:20
No.
01:02:21
No, we're here.
01:02:22
Y'all are here.
01:02:23
Those are our 10 moments of the year.
01:02:26
Thank you so much.
01:02:27
There is a microphone somewhere.
01:02:34
Does anyone have the microphone?
01:02:36
Avery.
01:02:37
Say how to Avery.
01:02:38
Avery's got a microphone.
01:02:39
Take a couple questions.
01:02:40
Please, if anyone has questions or professional help.
01:02:45
Do you have like a better help discount code or something?
01:02:49
Like one of those things that are like telehealth therapists.
01:02:52
Yeah.
01:02:56
Chris.
01:02:57
Well, that's my name.
01:02:59
I have a question, so the help video.
01:03:03
Well, I was looking at it.
01:03:05
I was just like, this is the justice.
01:03:07
This is justice revived.
01:03:08
That's so generous.
01:03:09
You know, but in terms of what type of swag they're trying to tap into.
01:03:13
Right.
01:03:14
So four years into the 2020s.
01:03:16
What decade musically do you think that we're most similar to right now?
01:03:21
Why do you give me a question?
01:03:23
I have to homework for it.
01:03:24
Jesus Christ.
01:03:26
Are we in the 80s?
01:03:28
Are we in the 90s?
01:03:29
We're not in the 90s.
01:03:30
We're definitely not in the 90s.
01:03:31
We're not in the 90s.
01:03:38
The 50s.
01:03:39
If you say so.
01:03:41
You say yourself.
01:03:42
The kids call me on when I talk about the 50s.
01:03:47
Dad, is it like the 50s?
01:03:51
Okay.
01:03:52
Well, let's start with what it's not.
01:03:54
It's not the 90s, which is preoccupied with scene authenticity.
01:04:01
It's preoccupied with rejection of pop norms.
01:04:05
Counterculture.
01:04:06
Mainstreaming of the sort of isolated countercultures.
01:04:10
Those things get upstream in the late 90s into the 2000s.
01:04:15
I feel like we're in a very broken and fragmented era.
01:04:18
Yes.
01:04:19
And I'm trying to think, is it the 60s?
01:04:22
I feel like in the 60s, they were coming towards something.
01:04:26
They started to make album.
01:04:27
It was the singles into albums.
01:04:29
Yeah.
01:04:30
And there was a new technology and everybody was going to make that technology.
01:04:34
What about the 2000s?
01:04:36
When everybody was confronting the internet for the first time and finding 10, 20 different solutions.
01:04:42
And people, and scenes were actually stratified in the real way.
01:04:46
Because if you wanted to find hip hop record, you had to go to one place.
01:04:49
You wanted to find country record, you had to go somewhere else.
01:04:51
You wanted to be on an REM fan site.
01:04:53
You had to be somewhere else.
01:04:54
The bleachers fan site.
01:04:56
I see you.
01:04:58
Is it the 2000s?
01:05:01
We'll go with that for now.
01:05:02
I feel like it's the 2000s or it's the 1960s.
01:05:07
Because I just want to clarify one thing.
01:05:11
Can I clarify one thing?
01:05:13
I was not alive in the 1960s.
01:05:16
Despite what some of you all think about how old I am.
01:05:19
I would say it's 2000s of the 60s because the preoccupations right now don't feel like they're organized around.
01:05:26
I'm against this thing, pop down, underground up.
01:05:30
It feels far more fragmented and actually a lot less ideological, dare I'd say.
01:05:36
Like the 90s felt incredibly ideological, the 80s felt ideological and big.
01:05:41
But in the 2010s felt ideological.
01:05:43
Very ideological.
01:05:44
But the 2000s, I think about a lot of the pieces I wrote in the 2000s, it just felt like chaos.
01:05:49
People were literally just making it up as they went along.
01:05:52
And that feels like the whole 2000s was like gecks.
01:05:55
Sure.
01:05:56
The whole 2000s.
01:05:58
Close enough, hopefully.
01:06:01
Hi, my name is Sophie and I'm sorry to be that girl, but my nurse Taylor Swift didn't make this list.
01:06:07
Oh, yeah, we didn't say Taylor Swift.
01:06:09
I feel like we should get a prize for not saying Taylor Swift all night.
01:06:13
That is your prize.
01:06:15
You said Taylor, but you didn't say that.
01:06:17
Yes, but that's your prize.
01:06:18
The adoration of the crowd.
01:06:20
So if you had to pick a moment of hers from this year, I was curious like what it would be.
01:06:25
I got one, I got one, I got one.
01:06:27
Okay, can you tell us it was her face when Travis Kelsey was screaming Viva Las Vegas when they won the Super Bowl in February.
01:06:36
It's a really good one.
01:06:37
And she was like, oh, really?
01:06:39
Like she's like, okay, all right, all right.
01:06:42
He just won.
01:06:43
It's okay.
01:06:44
It's all right.
01:06:45
We got this, you know, and we're like, well, hopefully we'll get to see that again.
01:06:47
You think she's forgiven him yet for it?
01:06:50
I can't stop that.
01:06:51
That's a really good answer.
01:06:52
I can't stop that.
01:06:56
Where was the mic?
01:07:02
My name is Jonathan.
01:07:04
What's up?
01:07:05
VL.
01:07:06
That's right.
01:07:07
That's great.
01:07:08
So you brought up Cardi and Camila Cabello's collab earlier.
01:07:12
What's a collab you won from a pop star and a rapper coming in 2025?
01:07:16
So I had some suggestions.
01:07:18
We got.
01:07:19
Yeah, start us off.
01:07:20
New jeans and net spend?
01:07:21
That's literally basically what's going to be my answer.
01:07:24
But okay, go ahead.
01:07:25
I'll keep going.
01:07:26
I'll leave you with Rodrigo Osama-san.
01:07:27
That is.
01:07:28
Wow.
01:07:29
You're trying to get people arrested.
01:07:31
Baby Rexha, boss made deal.
01:07:34
Yeah.
01:07:35
Why are we answering the next question?
01:07:37
Yeah, like, what do you guys want to do?
01:07:39
New jeans and net spend, if they're not already working on that, that's gotta be.
01:07:43
That's gotta be.
01:07:44
I will say we've already put this into the world.
01:07:48
Stay it.
01:07:49
But it's probably going to happen.
01:07:50
Dracon Wallen?
01:07:51
Yeah.
01:07:52
Dracon Wallen.
01:07:53
Oh.
01:07:54
Oh, okay.
01:07:55
But you're gonna know the words.
01:07:56
Show me the words.
01:07:57
Here's the thing.
01:07:58
Don't say, oh, and then show me your 2025 Spotify rat.
01:08:03
And it's the number one song on your Spotify, all of you.
01:08:08
Yeah, Dracon Wallen.
01:08:09
I feel like it's likely to happen.
01:08:10
I think that's not really in the spirit of Jonathan's question.
01:08:14
Who is the pop star who net spend is most likely to collaborate with?
01:08:17
I mean, Bieber.
01:08:18
Halsey.
01:08:19
No, it should just be whatever when Bieber comes back.
01:08:22
He should go all the way.
01:08:24
So, Bieber, featuring net spend produced by McGee.
01:08:28
Let's go.
01:08:29
I quit.
01:08:30
I did it.
01:08:31
It's literally it.
01:08:32
It's over.
01:08:33
Okay.
01:08:34
Great question.
01:08:35
Who's next?
01:08:36
Over here.
01:08:37
Okay.
01:08:38
My name is Kelsey and I have two questions for John.
01:08:41
Wow.
01:08:42
Sorry.
01:08:43
You want to talk to Joe?
01:08:44
Let's talk about Joe.
01:08:45
Okay.
01:08:46
First question.
01:08:48
When can we expect the book?
01:08:51
And can you give us a little -- This is a safe space.
01:08:53
A little sneak preview.
01:08:55
She's a plan for the band.
01:08:56
For the band.
01:08:57
Yeah.
01:08:58
Do you work for my editor?
01:08:59
Yeah.
01:09:00
What's the second question?
01:09:01
Sorry.
01:09:02
Okay.
01:09:03
So we're skipping that one.
01:09:04
No, no.
01:09:05
I'll answer both.
01:09:06
I just want to -- Okay.
01:09:08
But the second question is unrelated.
01:09:09
Great.
01:09:10
That's fine.
01:09:11
The second question is -- What made the boss Mandilo show so deeply unappealing?
01:09:14
Sure.
01:09:15
I'll answer the question.
01:09:18
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:20
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:21
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:22
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:23
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:24
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:25
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:26
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:27
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:28
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:29
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:30
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:31
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:32
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:33
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:34
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:35
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:36
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:37
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:38
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:39
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:40
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:41
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:42
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:44
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:45
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:46
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:47
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:48
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:49
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:50
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:51
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:52
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:53
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:54
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:55
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:56
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:57
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:58
It's hard to have a job.
01:09:59
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:00
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:01
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:02
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:03
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:04
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:05
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:07
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:08
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:09
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:10
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:11
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:12
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:13
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:14
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:15
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:16
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:17
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:18
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:19
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:20
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:21
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:22
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:23
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:24
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:25
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:26
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:27
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:28
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:29
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:30
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:31
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:32
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:33
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:34
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:35
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:36
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:37
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:38
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:39
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:40
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:41
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:42
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:43
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:44
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:45
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:46
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:47
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:48
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:49
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:50
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:51
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:52
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:53
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:54
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:55
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:56
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:57
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:58
It's hard to have a job.
01:10:59
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:00
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:01
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:02
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:03
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:04
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:05
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:06
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:07
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:08
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:09
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:10
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:11
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:12
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:13
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:14
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:15
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:16
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:17
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:18
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:19
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:20
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:21
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:22
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:23
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:24
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:25
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:26
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:27
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:28
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:29
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:30
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:31
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:32
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:33
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:34
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:35
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:36
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:37
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:38
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:39
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:40
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:41
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:42
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:43
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:44
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:45
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:46
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:47
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:48
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:49
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:50
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:51
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:52
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:53
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:54
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:55
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:56
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:57
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:58
It's hard to have a job.
01:11:59
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:00
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:01
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:02
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:03
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:04
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:05
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:06
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:07
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:08
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:09
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:10
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:11
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:12
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:13
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:14
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:15
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:16
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:17
It's hard to have a job.
01:12:18
It's good.
01:12:19
It's good.
01:12:20
It's good.
01:12:21
It's good.
01:12:22
There's some really good songs.
01:12:23
There's some really good songs.
01:12:24
There's some really good songs.
01:12:25
There's some normal good and there's some weird good.
01:12:26
There's some normal good and there's some weird good.
01:12:27
There's some normal good and there's some weird good.
01:12:28
But it's better than it has any right to be.
01:12:29
But it's better than it has any right to be.
01:12:30
But it's better than it has any right to be.
01:12:31
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:32
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:33
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:34
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:35
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:36
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:37
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:46
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:47
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:48
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:49
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:50
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:51
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:52
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:53
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:54
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:55
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:56
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:57
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:58
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:12:59
I was going to pull up some of the track names.
01:13:00
I said it.
01:13:02
Where does she sit?
01:13:04
She's not on the list, but that's not why I come to.
01:13:07
That's right, right.
01:13:07
Okay, no, that's fine.
01:13:08
I'm just...
01:13:09
And clarifying.
01:13:10
And to answer the Dan Agro question, too neat.
01:13:14
Like, Dan Agro thrives with singer-songwriters.
01:13:18
He thrives with Chapel and with Olivia, because...
01:13:20
Big voices.
01:13:20
Big, big voices.
01:13:22
Very lyric-focused.
01:13:24
Like Camilla is best in a collage, I think.
01:13:28
And he wants to make songs.
01:13:30
That would be my best guess for Nigro.
01:13:33
It's like, you would peel back the layers of what she does.
01:13:38
And I'm not sure that there's skeleton underneath there.
01:13:43
And his whole thing is stripping down to the skeleton and showing it.
01:13:48
And I just don't know what's there.
01:13:50
Yeah, what I get out of this album is that she likes a lot.
01:13:53
He'd do better with Normani, just for the record.
01:13:55
I get that.
01:13:56
We're more in Moreggy.
01:13:59
Yeah!
01:14:00
She's good on this album because she likes a lot of stuff, and you could throw all that at the wall, but I don't know if she knows who she is in the Dan Agro sense.
01:14:07
Yeah, I would agree.
01:14:08
Who's next?
01:14:11
Hey guys, Chris Malanty.
01:14:14
Out of Chris?
01:14:15
We're in the VIP atmosphere, fellow music writer.
01:14:17
What's up, Chris?
01:14:18
Long time listening.
01:14:19
If you read Slate's number one's column, that's Chris.
01:14:22
Hi guys.
01:14:23
You got a slow year this year.
01:14:25
It's only like four records.
01:14:27
I didn't have to write anything for like five months.
01:14:29
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
01:14:31
Yeah, exactly.
01:14:32
So I liked John's ear and piece where your thesis was.
01:14:35
This was a year of, if I got this right, stars with no hits and hits with no stars.
01:14:41
That's correct.
01:14:42
That's tattooed on your inner arm.
01:14:45
Right.
01:14:46
Hits with no stars.
01:14:47
You jumped off from Tommy Richman.
01:14:50
But what I found interesting was in the middle of the piece you highlighted Playboy Cardi and Eat as rappers who are not playing the game.
01:14:58
In other words, they are hits with, but not stars because they're not playing the star game.
01:15:03
Yeah.
01:15:04
And all right, the other thread is that 2023 was a nothing burger of a year for hip hop.
01:15:10
And 2024 was a pretty big year for hip hop.
01:15:12
But mostly because guys that we've known about for 15 years were sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
01:15:19
So what I've been saying for a while is there's got to be a new generation.
01:15:21
I mean, I think you guys said it yourselves about an hour ago, a new generation coming up to take their place.
01:15:26
If Cardi and Eat are not playing the game, what's the means by which we're going to get that next generation?
01:15:33
That's kind of what I'm waiting for.
01:15:35
I mean, that's an incredibly important question that everybody we know who works at a record label is obviously trying to solve.
01:15:42
The one struggle that I think is the central struggle is hits.
01:15:47
And by hits, I mean, TikTok audios are more disposable than ever.
01:15:53
They move faster than ever.
01:15:55
They do not attach to a particular person or performer.
01:15:59
You've seen this throughout the last four years pandemic era.
01:16:02
I think it's spent in all genres, but especially in hip hop.
01:16:06
And so you have people who are getting a tremendous amount of attention.
01:16:11
Maybe they get to do a little bit of a tour.
01:16:13
They might play a room like this, but there's not a formation of a bond with the artist.
01:16:19
And I think rap labels, I mean, we were talking to some folks who work at rap labels earlier this week.
01:16:26
Someone threw a number at me that the one label that I won on name was signing potentially 50 artists a month.
01:16:32
Now, they're not signing them to million dollar deals.
01:16:36
They're not signing them to half a million dollar deals.
01:16:38
But what they're doing is they're placing a bet on every number on the roulette table.
01:16:44
They're putting one chip on every number.
01:16:47
And what that's doing is stifling innovation because a lot of these younger artists aren't being properly resourced to grow and develop.
01:16:55
This came up on our most recent episode with Larry Jackson, who runs gamma.
01:17:00
And ultimately, those deals are renewable and short term.
01:17:05
So if someone has a hit, maybe they'll get another check.
01:17:08
But if someone doesn't have a hit, they're going to get kicked back out into the wilds.
01:17:12
There is no one, no managers, probably preciously few, preciously few lawyers who are really advocating for the creators of that music.
01:17:22
And unfortunately, in this particular ecosystem, hip-hop is treated as more disposable than other genres.
01:17:29
So the answer to your question is I don't know the answer to your question.
01:17:33
It's really frustrating, which is part of why I was stressed about Boseman Dilo, because I was like character, personality, wit, savvy, lyrical ingenuity, expensive sneakers,
01:17:45
like great, like everything's great.
01:17:47
But no one had said here's how you get on the stage and when people over.
01:17:52
On the flip side, I will say I think where those stars are being made, I think is on the road, which wasn't always true, but you think of someone like a Ken Carson, who's really become-- Took a few years.
01:18:02
Took a few years.
01:18:03
Took a few years.
01:18:03
But I'm saying, in a good way, it took a few years.
01:18:05
And I think sexy red is also on that path.
01:18:07
Yeah, a lot of hard ticket sales, shows, a couple mix tapes here and there, a couple big music videos, and being more gradual and deliberate.
01:18:15
So I think like, eventually, I would love it if sexy red is a star on par with, you know, the people who are taking up all the oxygen now.
01:18:22
And I think it's possible it just might take a little time.
01:18:26
Get it sexy, get it sexy.
01:18:29
Who's next?
01:18:30
What?
01:18:31
Two more?
01:18:32
Yeah, well, there's two more.
01:18:33
Two more.
01:18:34
Yeah, so this year, Katy Perry came back and-- Wait, what?
01:18:39
Yeah.
01:18:40
Are you sure?
01:18:41
Can you fact check that before you-- all questions should be fact check.
01:18:46
Oh, yeah, also, my name's Lynn.
01:18:48
I forgot to say that part.
01:18:49
But yeah, we all very excited for her, and then I feel like we all very matter her for good reasons.
01:18:55
And so I'm wondering, is there a chance Katy Perry could ever come back to her glory, you know?
01:19:01
Did you do the breath into the mic at the same time I did?
01:19:08
Yes.
01:19:08
I do want to shout out Katy Perry's stylist.
01:19:11
As many fans as Dave Blunts.
01:19:15
I believe her name is Tatiana Wanderfart, who has done incredible things with Katy Perry's visual presentation.
01:19:26
The Katy Perry of 2024, visually and 2023 as well, feels miles beyond the kind of like 1.0 burst exploding birthday cake of 2012 or whatever,
01:19:39
and whatever was happening in the late 2010s when she was like trying to do trap records.
01:19:43
They really nailed that.
01:19:46
The question musically, does Katy Perry need to exist in this current pop ecosystem?
01:19:55
Genuine question.
01:19:56
And I don't see if these are the stars that we're talking about, Chapel and Sabrina Edison.
01:20:03
If these are the stars, yeah, that's right.
01:20:06
Moving forward, there is something like Ernest Lee Goofy about Katy Perry that doesn't really jive with the new tenor,
01:20:17
especially a female pop.
01:20:19
When you say, can she have a comeback, you mean to her full for like the full glory?
01:20:25
No.
01:20:26
Yeah, the answer is no, the answer to that is no, but do you mean like to 30% of that to 60% or do you mean strictly to 100%?
01:20:36
Prism.
01:20:37
All right, so we're setting the bar pretty well, like somewhere in the middle.
01:20:40
I mean, I think the most memorable thing about the Prism era is that they spray painted the sidewalks with Prism.
01:20:45
I couldn't tell you a song from that, but I didn't remember the sidewalk.
01:20:49
Here's what I'll say.
01:20:50
The career of a pop star has a certain shape usually, and that shape is, maybe you start off a little bit, you get really big, and then you go away.
01:21:00
Or you change, you do something else, you make, you know, adult contemporary music, that's fine, but like I did a project where Barry Moore showed type beat.
01:21:09
Yeah, I did a project earlier this year about Taylor Swift's career and where her peaks are, and the thing that's so impressive on one level about Taylor Swift is that she's 20 years into her career and bigger than ever,
01:21:22
like that is unheard of, especially for women and pop.
01:21:25
Now, we can sit here all night and talk about the reasons for that and the sort of the ageism and the sexism involved in us only wanting a bright young thing, but when you get to Katy Perry's age,
01:21:37
there's just less need for you in the mainstream because there's a decade and a half of people coming up behind.
01:21:43
So I think without a major pivot, like if she wants to, you know, you got to find your Tony Bennett, basically, if that's what you, because I mean, even look at Gaga, like Gaga put out disease, it's like, so you're saying Billie Eilish.
01:21:54
Yeah, I mean, like Gaga put out a pretty good lady Gaga song that a lot of people are like, this is the lady Gaga I love and like, where is it?
01:22:01
It's like literally falling off of the hot 100 as we speak.
01:22:05
So I just think it's like, it's an uphill battle and maybe they should be fighting a different war.
01:22:09
I also just think the terms of pop music change so radically year to year.
01:22:15
I mean, it's not just for female singers, look at Bruno Mars this year.
01:22:20
Bruno had two, let's say, serviceable to strong Bruno Mars collaborations.
01:22:26
Apparently this lady Gaga songs being a guy is a huge hit.
01:22:29
I've never heard it.
01:22:31
Like, like, are you hearing that?
01:22:33
It's like the only star with a hit that's like the Tommy Richmond song where no one has seen them before.
01:22:38
Yeah.
01:22:39
Well, we'll see it at the Grammys.
01:22:40
Yeah, it's, unfortunately, we probably will.
01:22:43
I just think that the terms of contemporary pop have cast aside a number of people came before and unless you're someone like Adele who has one extremely robust fixed idea and every five years you come back around and be like,
01:23:00
y'all like that idea?
01:23:01
I sure got some more of that for you.
01:23:04
Unless you're doing that in your persona is so honed, Katy Perry was trend-hopping, trend-chasing, all through the 2010s.
01:23:13
I actually think that if Katy Perry had just stayed bright, bubbly, technical, it would have come back around.
01:23:18
It would have come back around and maybe even would have stuck around in a perverse way where there would be, what are the Katy Perry stands called?
01:23:25
Katy cats.
01:23:26
Sorry to not know that.
01:23:27
Where the Katy cats would have something, they would be Katy cats.
01:23:31
Katy cats, sorry, they would have been eating well all through the 2010s, but instead we're stuck here and you have to ask us that question.
01:23:39
That's tough, that's unfortunate.
01:23:41
All right, last question.
01:23:42
Last question.
01:23:42
Yeah, we're having a question.
01:23:44
Oh, we have to have a snack.
01:23:46
We're going to do that.
01:23:47
One more question and we're going to have a snack.
01:23:48
Hi.
01:23:49
Hi.
01:23:50
My name's Becca.
01:23:51
I'm here with my friend that I met via bleachers.
01:23:56
Oh yeah.
01:23:57
Yeah.
01:23:57
This fan can do me a little bit.
01:23:59
Sorry.
01:23:59
Again, send our regrets and my regrets.
01:24:02
Not Jo's, mine.
01:24:04
But with the eras tour and ending, thank God.
01:24:08
Are you sure?
01:24:09
We'll find out after she takes a three-week break.
01:24:15
She's going to do the pop out.
01:24:17
Her intention is going to do the pop out.
01:24:19
40 days.
01:24:20
And with so many reports saying it's like the biggest tour of all time and grossing, how do you feel about the state of touring, not necessarily at that height,
01:24:30
but at the club and theater level that has been struggling for artists, especially considering, you know, we've dealt with the last 10 years of music,
01:24:41
losing its value.
01:24:42
And now with touring at that level, losing its value, how do you see career artists who are never going to play arenas?
01:24:51
Where do you see that live experience going?
01:24:54
So you're saying specifically for older artists, like artists who are on the back nine of their careers.
01:25:01
Back nine or never going to make it to the top, like people who maybe 10, 15 years ago could play clubs and theaters and tour and have a profitable tour.
01:25:12
Now it feels like it's like you make it to arenas or you die.
01:25:18
And how do you feel about that?
01:25:19
I have sort of an answer.
01:25:22
Maybe, and I don't know that this is correct, but maybe like when I think about people buying vinyl, vinyls or CDs or merch,
01:25:32
it's like the musician had to remake making music as a luxury proposition.
01:25:38
They had to remake their business model, fundamentally say, I make music and that's what invites you in the room.
01:25:46
Now please purchase all my other services, right?
01:25:49
Or all my other merchandise.
01:25:51
I wonder if that tier of live is actually going to move more luxury.
01:25:57
I'm sure Ticketmaster would love it, but I wonder if it's going to move more luxury.
01:26:00
And instead of artists like you're saying sort of slogging it out on the road and not sure if they're going to make money every night and maybe only break even on a mid-sized tour.
01:26:12
Maybe they do half as many dates in cities where they feel like they can sell tickets at the highest value, save three months of their year, and earn the same amount at a higher ticket point.
01:26:25
Now that's not good for us.
01:26:27
That's not good for the people in this room, but I think people are really understanding that the life of a touring musician who's not an a-lister, that life, that's a middle-class life,
01:26:37
or a lower middle-class life.
01:26:39
And I think it's as hard now as it's ever been.
01:26:42
So in the same way that I think those musicians have remade merch and t-shirts and vinyl as luxury and their brand, that's maybe where live is going to go to.
01:26:52
So I'll see you on the Paramar Cruise.
01:26:57
Wood, wood.
01:26:57
As you know at the end of every episode of Popcast, slash Popcast deluxe, we eat a snack.
01:27:05
Shall we have a snack?
01:27:07
Oh my god, a nasty quaz question.
01:27:10
Our dear friend, Hwasu, got me this snack from Europe, Switzerland, Hwa, when you're listening, I'm sorry I didn't ask your question.
01:27:21
It was mostly making fun of me, though.
01:27:23
So that's probably fine.
01:27:24
Is it a Swiss flag on the bag?
01:27:26
Or the Red Cross?
01:27:27
Sure.
01:27:28
Okay, these are these OVO rocks or OVO rocks.
01:27:32
Sorry, these are OVO rocks.
01:27:35
Can I do that on purpose?
01:27:36
You'll have to ask them.
01:27:39
These are OVO rocks.
01:27:40
They are Swiss.
01:27:41
They are chocolates.
01:27:42
And I googled them.
01:27:43
Maybe you're supposed to melt them in your coffee?
01:27:46
But we're going to eat them.
01:27:47
We're going to eat them.
01:27:49
You can eat them.
01:27:49
We're going to raw dog the OVO rocks we are.
01:27:51
It's an alternate consumption batter.
01:27:54
So we're going to have a couple and then we're going to pass these around and we'll review them.
01:28:00
Yes, we'll review them.
01:28:06
John's big on smell.
01:28:07
It's giving like regional Nestle factory, like not the main one, like not the one where the good stuff comes from.
01:28:19
I mean, they're duller than I wanted them to be.
01:28:21
Yeah, I thought they were going to be more shard-like.
01:28:24
It's really hard when your candy looks like a turd.
01:28:27
Sorry, I have a baby.
01:28:30
Wow.
01:28:31
Dark turn.
01:28:32
Oh, they're good though.
01:28:35
It's like a mop ball.
01:28:40
It's a bunch of crunch mixed with a whopper.
01:28:41
It's like, um, yeah, it's a whopper.
01:28:44
It's just chocolate melted.
01:28:45
I'll chocolate mop it.
01:28:46
But like a little bit of bunch of crunch.
01:28:49
Yeah, I'm I'm into this.
01:28:51
I'm happy.
01:28:53
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just kidding.
01:28:55
Are you going out of 10?
01:28:57
What'd you give it?
01:28:59
I'm asking you.
01:29:00
Um, I'm going to be honest, that's a nine, nine and a half.
01:29:04
Would you house the whole bag?
01:29:06
Yeah, thank god there's people here.
01:29:08
That would, I didn't have dinner.
01:29:10
So you're just hungry, nine and a half.
01:29:12
I'd say that's like a solid seven flat, pretty good.
01:29:15
Nothing.
01:29:16
I'm not a chocolate guy.
01:29:17
We had a rant-flavored doodles the other day that you loved.
01:29:23
I did, but not like them.
01:29:24
All right, that's that's actual psycho mode.
01:29:27
Okay, that is our show.
01:29:28
Thank you so much.
01:29:30
Very, very kind and generous of everybody to be here.
01:29:36
I'm John.
01:29:37
That's your special thank you to Pedro Zato from that separate media.
01:29:41
Shout out to Edwin up in the sound booth.
01:29:43
Thank you to Larry and Avery and everybody at SOBs.
01:29:46
We are grateful.
01:29:47
We're happy to be here.
01:29:48
We're going to hang out, come chat with us.
01:29:51
Have a beautiful night.
01:29:58
