The Bob Dylan-Timothée Chalamet Connection
Update: 2025-01-17
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Transcript
00:00:00
Hi, I'm Josh Hainer and I'm a staff photographer at The New York Times covering climate change.
00:00:04
For years, we've sort of imagined this picture of a polar bear floating on a piece of ice.
00:00:09
Those have been the images associated with climate change.
00:00:13
My challenge is to find stories that show you how climate change is affecting our world right now.
00:00:20
If you want to support the kind of journalism that we're working on here on the climate and environment desk at The New York Times, please subscribe on our website or our app.
00:00:30
Welcome to The New York Times' podcast, your city bike on the red carpet of music news and criticism.
00:00:36
I'm John Caramalica, a critic at The New York Times.
00:00:38
I'm Joe Cascarilly, a reporter at The New York Times.
00:00:41
Are your ears deceiving you?
00:00:52
Are you familiar with this music that is being played?
00:00:56
You're thinking, well, damn, damn if that isn't Bob Dylan.
00:01:01
Damn, if it's not Bob Dylan.
00:01:03
And I'll tell you what, damn, it's not Bob Dylan.
00:01:08
It's the boy Timmy Chalamet.
00:01:10
As Bob Dylan, it's Monica Barbaro, as Joan Baez singing "Blowin in the Wind" from a complete unknown.
00:01:18
Timmy's version.
00:01:19
Yes, Tim, that's correct.
00:01:21
With nasal nasal-ness intact to Timmy's credit, we both recently saw a complete unknown, which is the sort of a biop out dare.
00:01:29
We're gonna get into this, but dare I say it's a concert film cosplaying as a biopic.
00:01:36
Yes.
00:01:36
We're gonna talk a little bit about a complete unknown.
00:01:38
We're gonna talk about the performances.
00:01:40
We're gonna talk about early Bob Dylan, who I am pleased to report, was a great musician.
00:01:44
You were into the song?
00:01:46
Yeah, pretty good songs.
00:01:47
Pretty good songs.
00:01:48
Especially in their minute and a half version.
00:01:52
You know, they were very edited.
00:01:54
Yes.
00:01:54
I have a friend who's main takeaway from this movie after going back and listening to Bob Dylan's songs was like, "You know, they could all be a little bit shorter."
00:02:02
I'm like, yeah, we've cut verses six through nine.
00:02:05
Yeah.
00:02:06
They should be TikTok versions of these songs.
00:02:09
That's what this movie was.
00:02:10
Yes.
00:02:10
TikTok versions of Bob Dylan's songs.
00:02:12
So we're gonna talk a little bit about a complete unknown and the acting question mark and the music and plugging a guitar.
00:02:22
And we're gonna talk about all that.
00:02:23
And then the back half of the show, we're gonna talk about the Timmy Chalamet press tour and press tours more broadly.
00:02:29
You may remember we spent some time with the wicked press tour a few weeks ago, but I have some space for it.
00:02:36
Yeah.
00:02:36
Yes.
00:02:37
Reference.
00:02:37
Yeah.
00:02:38
I'm going on fingers.
00:02:39
But I have some bigger thoughts on press tours that I would like to share and put it in the world.
00:02:44
So we're gonna get into that in the back end.
00:02:46
But first, let's let's circle back.
00:02:48
Let's talk about a complete unknown which I texted Karen after I saw the film.
00:02:53
And I said, "That is a slight film."
00:02:57
There wasn't much movie.
00:03:00
This is a movie that ostensibly captures the first four years of Bob Dylan's career from when he moves from Minnesota to New York and apparently he sits with he got three in the hospital.
00:03:15
And you know, the friends Pete Seeger and begins to make inroads into the folk scene.
00:03:20
And then very rapidly is a pop star.
00:03:24
He's a pop star and a folk pariah and a terrible attitude.
00:03:30
A lot of things happen in a very compressed time in this film.
00:03:34
However, dare I say almost nothing happened in this film.
00:03:38
There was a tremendous amount of music.
00:03:40
You get to see Timmy Chalamet's finger style.
00:03:43
You get to see a lot of close-ups of the finger style.
00:03:45
Not a lot of acting.
00:03:47
Not a lot of character development.
00:03:49
Not a lot of dialogue.
00:03:50
Not a lot of plot.
00:03:51
Not a lot of sense of what might have motivated Bob Dylan as a person.
00:03:55
Now, Bob Dylan, famously enigmatic.
00:03:58
However, I would think if there ever was a time to get under the hood of what was motivating this person, it would be these early years.
00:04:05
That wasn't there.
00:04:07
Yeah, I mean, this is a film by James Mangold, who made "Walk the Line," which is such a biopic that it became "Walk Hard" a parody of all biopics.
00:04:20
And I was expecting that.
00:04:22
I was expecting much more sort of Wikipedia notes along the way.
00:04:28
And like, you get a little bit of that, but it's mostly in song.
00:04:32
It's like here he is playing song for Woody, a very early Bob Dylan song.
00:04:37
Here he is stumbling on to grow from the north country.
00:04:41
Here he is times I have a change.
00:04:43
You know, basically like it's a greatest hits album.
00:04:46
Yes.
00:04:46
Montage.
00:04:47
Yes.
00:04:48
Flayed by somebody who watched a lot of Bob Dylan YouTube clips.
00:04:52
Yes.
00:04:52
I never once forgot that this was Timothy Chalamet.
00:04:57
No, of course not.
00:05:00
And I think we'll get to this, but I think that was in part because of how hard he's gone on the press door.
00:05:04
I actually have a counter, okay, I keep finished your thought, but I have a counter thought.
00:05:09
You have L-Fanning in this.
00:05:13
Yes.
00:05:14
As a sort of fictionalized composite version of one of Bob Dylan's girlfriend.
00:05:21
It's the one pictured on the cover of "Free Will in Bob Dylan."
00:05:24
And then you have the maybe the most fleshed out character in the whole film, the only other character.
00:05:30
You get a character of his manager.
00:05:32
Elder Grossman.
00:05:33
Hand of Pete Seger.
00:05:34
And you get Ed Norton as Pete Seger, St.
00:05:38
Pete.
00:05:38
Very one note, very public access television.
00:05:43
Just me and my banjo.
00:05:44
Pete Seger.
00:05:45
No wrong moves.
00:05:46
Single handedly holding up the dam of folk music.
00:05:50
Yes.
00:05:51
Along with Grumpy Alan Lomax.
00:05:54
Yeah.
00:05:54
Who gets a punch in the face at the end?
00:05:57
Yeah.
00:05:58
But the real star of this film, I think, is Monica Barbaro as Joan Bias.
00:06:04
Do we know if Monica's related to Michael?
00:06:05
I do not know.
00:06:07
Okay.
00:06:07
We'll come back with it.
00:06:08
Daily listeners.
00:06:09
Let us know if he's shouted out his cousin, Joan Bias.
00:06:11
I found her and their relationship to be instead of his relationship with the L-Fanning character, Sylvie.
00:06:21
Sylvie, who just, I think Manola Dargas in her review of this called her Wattori I'd, which is like the only the only descriptor for the character in this movie,
00:06:32
who just only exists to quiver her lip when she realizes that Bob isn't paying attention to her.
00:06:37
But he is many, many times.
00:06:39
And in many stages of his development.
00:06:41
Yes.
00:06:41
But his push and pull with Joan Bias, who's already famous in the folk world, and you get a glimpse of her on the cover of Time Magazine, as Bob stars just starting to rise.
00:06:51
He wants to be her.
00:06:53
He wants to love her.
00:06:55
He wants to leave her.
00:06:57
He wants to resent her.
00:06:58
He wants to resent her.
00:06:59
He gives her a hard time for not writing originals.
00:07:02
He says that her songs are like oil paintings on a dentist office wall, which is maybe the best line in the film.
00:07:10
I was going to say, you know, I am hit or miss on Timothy Shelman's performances.
00:07:15
I tend to like him when he plays a little pain in the ass, which he does often, you know, Lady Bird probably has like his her role, but also even in Dune,
00:07:25
like he's like a, he's a petulant boy prince.
00:07:28
And Dylan is very much that in the popular imagination, especially in this period 61 to 65.
00:07:35
And I wanted more of Dylan the asshole.
00:07:37
You just get little little swipes here and there.
00:07:40
Well, you'd have to have more words in the film.
00:07:43
You'd have to have a film that prioritized spoken words.
00:07:47
I mean, this was a real tough thing.
00:07:49
One of the things that made his relationship with Joan Baez in the film at least stick was there's two levels of communication between them.
00:08:00
There's dialogue, not that much, but there is some dialogue, and they're both frisky with each other.
00:08:06
They're both, they're both skeptical of each other.
00:08:09
That's actually really important, I think, is that they're both skeptical and attracted to each other at the same time.
00:08:14
But there's also music, and they're both musically skeptical of each other, and there are great scenes of them on stage being highly fructive with each other, even though the music that they're making is quite lovely.
00:08:24
That to me cements that relationship and the Joan Baez character as the center and anchor of this film.
00:08:32
I agree.
00:08:33
I wanted more petulence from Timmy Chalamet.
00:08:36
I wanted, like, it's pop cast listeners, no, I don't care much about Bob Dylan or have much patience for Bob Dylan.
00:08:43
But what I do know about Bob Dylan is he's famously difficult, and here's a time period where he was both in, and started out as a sycophant and became a heretic.
00:08:53
I want to know more about what's going on in his head that made him think that the people that he was enthralled to in '61 and '62,
00:09:03
he had to absolutely upend by '64 and '65.
00:09:07
That's not in this movie at all.
00:09:08
I did think because there was so much space, there was so much blankness in this film, you could project, it would lead you to a conclusion, right?
00:09:17
You know, okay, Bob A.
00:09:19
He hates being in a box, Bobby.
00:09:21
And B, he doesn't like stridancy, and he feels like these people are dogmatic, strident, whatever.
00:09:29
There's no real example of that.
00:09:31
Yeah, they are.
00:09:33
You get a couple snippets of conversations, debates in the back.
00:09:37
Is this country?
00:09:38
Is this folk?
00:09:38
And he's always like, who cares?
00:09:40
Just like pop cast.
00:09:41
Yeah, there's a little bit of music criticism in there.
00:09:45
But I did find there was enough space on which to project your idea, both from historically and from context-losing movies of what's happening,
00:09:58
but there's not a lot of exposition or representative scenes to show those feelings.
00:10:03
As a biopic skeptic in general, there's part of me that appreciated that there wasn't a ton of, and this is why I feel this way, and this is why I did that.
00:10:13
Like, there's not as much exposition as you're used to in like a sloppy version of this, a cheaper version of this.
00:10:21
And I think it's in part because it's such a well-known story and arc that they basically leave it to you to fill in the gaps of motivation and why things are happening.
00:10:32
But in a scene, like what I thought was probably the best scene in the movie with Bob pulling up on his situation ship at the Chelsea hotel, after probably their best days are behind them as a pair collaboratively.
00:10:46
And you don't even know that it's post-coital, but it's, but he implies it, and he's writing a song at the desk while she's trying to sleep.
00:10:55
And she's just basically like, you're doing this on purpose.
00:10:58
Like, why are you rubbing in my face then that you're writing a song?
00:11:01
Like, get out of here?
00:11:02
Like, there was more packed into that scene to me than like, in the first hour of the movie.
00:11:08
And it's not a short movie.
00:11:09
It did feel quite breezy because of its montage, like, quality.
00:11:13
Never lingers.
00:11:14
It never lingers.
00:11:15
It's very boom, boom, boom.
00:11:17
But there's just, as you said, not a lot of depth.
00:11:20
I'm reminded of something that I think you said, maybe when we talk about the Amy Winehouse biopic, which is that this film exists to sell Amy Winehouse songs to people who didn't grow up with them or didn't hear them in real time.
00:11:34
They're basically a primer for a new audience.
00:11:38
And ultimately, if you own the Amy Winehouse catalog, you want to make sure that the next generation, the next generation are going to keep thinking of those songs as standards or classics.
00:11:47
That's how this felt about Bob Dylan.
00:11:50
It was basically like, we want to remind maybe younger people of the vitality of these songs.
00:11:57
We want to put them in the mouth of one of the most vibrant and viable young stars of this generation.
00:12:05
And so by that metric, the fact that it felt truly like a jukebox musical, it strikes me that somebody got their way.
00:12:14
But I feel like it's the catalog owner who got their way, not the director or certainly not the screenwriters.
00:12:21
And it's Bob Dylan himself who got his way because as we've learned from the reporting around this movie, he had a role in shaping this story.
00:12:29
It was his idea to change the name of the alphanon character or the girlfriend, certain scenes he wanted, certain scenes he didn't.
00:12:37
He allowed them to play with time, you know, conflate stuff, etc.
00:12:41
But most crucially, you mentioned the catalog.
00:12:44
Let's remember Bob Dylan sold his songwriting catalog in 2020.
00:12:48
How long does it take to make a Hollywood blockbuster?
00:12:53
Right about four years, you know.
00:12:55
So you say jukebox musical.
00:12:57
There was a Bob Dylan musical on Broadway.
00:12:59
Maybe it's still this girl from the north country, which is I think a little bit already an experimental not so quote unquote jukeboxy.
00:13:06
But I would not be surprised if if that comes on the back end.
00:13:09
And I don't know if you saw this news today.
00:13:12
Since we've been in the office, Bob Dylan joined TikTok.
00:13:15
I did see that for timing.
00:13:17
Yeah.
00:13:17
For the last three days of TikTok, maybe makes perfect sense.
00:13:23
But I do think if anything, this movie exists for a spike in streaming numbers.
00:13:29
Yes.
00:13:30
And for a new generation to discover, as you said, like myself.
00:13:33
Yes, some pretty good songs.
00:13:35
All the young people like myself are now discovering that Bob Dylan was a hell of a songwriter.
00:13:40
I think you have a certain segment of Dylan fans and among the younger Dylan fans, my in-laws were blown away to hear this recently when I told them it's actually hip to love later Dylan.
00:13:53
Yeah.
00:13:54
Christian Dylan.
00:13:55
Yeah.
00:13:55
70s Dylan, 80s Dylan, 90s Dylan, 2000s, 2010s Dylan.
00:13:59
Like, you know, the Joker Man podcast only exists to bring a spotlight to that stuff.
00:14:05
And those guys are sort of like, you know, our colleague Mark Tracy did a piece with one of the hosts and another Dylanologist.
00:14:13
And they were like, again, 61 to 65, again, with going electric at Newport.
00:14:18
Like, haven't we covered this?
00:14:20
And it's like, Gen Z is a historical.
00:14:23
Yeah, if they're anything.
00:14:24
Yeah, like they have not seen this.
00:14:26
They have not seen, don't look back, the DA Panabaker documentary, which an amazing portrait of Bob Dylan around the same time.
00:14:33
Incredible moment.
00:14:34
Yeah.
00:14:34
They haven't seen.
00:14:35
I'm not there.
00:14:36
Maybe they have.
00:14:37
Maybe they know Cape Landship played Bob Dylan at Newport.
00:14:41
But maybe not.
00:14:42
You know, that's a, that's an art film.
00:14:44
That's a 10-year-old 12-year-old.
00:14:46
Yeah.
00:14:47
That's a movie about the essence of Bob Dylan.
00:14:49
That's a movie trying to pick up our psyche in these abstract vignettes where Dylan has played by a small black child and Dylan has played by Richard Gear and Dylan has played by Cape Landship.
00:15:00
This is just like, hey, we're playing hits literally and figuratively.
00:15:05
Like, we're focusing on the part that sold Dylan to the world.
00:15:09
Like, it's going to work again.
00:15:11
I ain't got no work on that.
00:15:13
It's far more.
00:15:15
Okay.
00:15:15
I'm opening the New York Times app.
00:15:17
The app has so much more than you might expect.
00:15:33
The way the tabs are at the top with all of the different sections.
00:15:36
It's just easier to navigate that way.
00:15:26
There is something for everyone.
00:15:41
When I open the U-Tab, I get a short list of articles that are more related to me.
00:15:46
10 stories picked for you every day.
00:15:47
You're able to add sections that interest you?
00:15:50
That's really handy.
00:15:51
There are some individuals in here.
00:15:52
I can add Paul Krugman or Jamal Buoyal I can.
00:15:55
The lifestyle tab, the photos are just phenomenal.
00:15:59
It's kind of like a collage.
00:16:00
I own games always scroll over to the games page, play Wordal or Connections, and then swipe over to read today's headlines.
00:16:08
There's an article next to a recipe, next to games, and it's just easy to get everything in one place.
00:16:15
Before you know it, you're going to be late to work.
00:16:17
The New York Times app, all of the times, all in one place.
00:16:21
Download it now at nytimes.com/app.
00:16:24
In keeping with Dylan's rejection of kind of like deep read, it feels like a film made by a person who wishes to not be known or wishes to not be analyzed in any way.
00:16:37
There's barely any analysis by Dylan of himself or by any of the exterior characters of Dylan where you see as a person who seems to be coming up with new recipes on the fly in his mind and everybody around him has to just again on the fly,
00:16:53
whether it's at the Newport folk festival or in the bedroom or in studio A.
00:16:58
Yeah, I'm your record.
00:16:59
Right.
00:17:00
But there's never any sense of why he's making these decisions.
00:17:02
There's no sense of his external creative life.
00:17:05
There's no sense of his.
00:17:06
Yes, he's petulant.
00:17:07
Yes, he's punchy.
00:17:09
But what is he pushing back against?
00:17:11
Why does he still go see Woody, sorry, spoiler?
00:17:13
He goes to see Woody Guthrie at the beginning of the film in hospital, but also sees him at the end of the film.
00:17:18
If you're rejecting all of the things that Woody helped build, why are you circling back at the end?
00:17:26
Why are you saying farewell?
00:17:27
If you're an unsentimental person, why are you bringing emotion into this?
00:17:31
You do not see any emotion in Bob Dylan.
00:17:34
You don't see any emotion in the romantic and bedroom scenes.
00:17:38
You really don't see it on stage.
00:17:40
Either one thing in the pennebaker film, which I did watch some of last night, that you get a sense of like the liveliness of the person.
00:17:47
I think Timmy Jalini is playing the caricatured version of Bob Dylan, a much narrow, much more sandpapered idea of what that guy is.
00:17:57
Then what you actually see in the footage from that time.
00:18:00
Yeah, I mean, to me, don't look back is like a sister film with like the Carter, you know, seeing Wayne around Carter three under being yep, petulant, but also motivated.
00:18:10
Yeah, and also, you know, it's like those movies speak to each other to me across, across time and across genres.
00:18:19
Whereas this, yeah, is much more of a tracing of an idea that most people already have.
00:18:25
And it's like, that's the thing.
00:18:26
I've been surprised by how many Dylan fans in my life, you know, referring back to Mark Tracy or our colleague in the culture section.
00:18:34
He's had to me when he first saw it, you know, not that great.
00:18:37
I'll probably see it two or three more times in the theater.
00:18:40
You know, like is like, it's not offensive to the to the true believers.
00:18:44
And it is welcoming to the Timothy Chalamet fans who might not know Dylan.
00:18:50
Well, to that point, you said you never forgot that you were looking at Tim, Timmy, Timmy Chalamet.
00:18:54
That to me is a feature not a bug because I think that for people who are drawn to this film because of the star who's playing Bob Dylan,
00:19:05
you always want to know that it's an incredibly hot young famous actor trying to portray this character in these songs.
00:19:14
I don't want as a young person, I don't want Timmy Chalamet to disappear into the role.
00:19:20
I want to feel him bursting against the outer limit of the role, but I don't want him to disappear.
00:19:25
And so I actually think having him sing the songs, maybe they're good, maybe they're very good, and maybe they're a little less than good.
00:19:33
It kind of varies from song to song, but his performance, his performance of the songs, if he was just lip syncing Bob Dylan, if he slips in the recordings, you don't get the same thing.
00:19:44
But to see his investment, that is what I think an average new to Dylan, but old to Shalamet fan, that's what they want to see.
00:19:53
They're there to see Timothy Shalamet play a character.
00:19:57
They're not there to see how faithfully Timothy Shalamet plays Bob Dylan.
00:20:02
I have two questions for you.
00:20:04
One serious and one less so.
00:20:06
Do you think Kylie Jenner thinks she could have played Joan Bias?
00:20:11
Is that serious or is that the less so?
00:20:14
Like when she's watching you set the premiere with him and she's like, I could have done that.
00:20:21
Here's the thing.
00:20:25
I'm taking this more seriously than I am because I believe that that merits a valid answer.
00:20:30
I think it's no, because one thing I know about Kylie Jenner is that's a serious, aesthetic and business presence.
00:20:36
And I think she understands the outer bounds of what she's good at.
00:20:39
Sure.
00:20:39
She's never been in a movie as far as I can tell.
00:20:41
Yeah.
00:20:41
I don't get the sense that her aspirations go in that direction.
00:20:45
I think she's a savvy enough listener and watch her to know that there are things that she's that they're better off other people doing than her.
00:20:53
So I'm going to say no.
00:20:53
But you know she was in the bed and he was at the edge practicing these songs.
00:20:57
I'm not saying she didn't live part of it in real life.
00:21:00
She was listening to Dylan like many girls in dorm rooms before her.
00:21:03
Even though she hasn't gotten to live that typical college experience.
00:21:07
My other question for you was how did the historical moments play in this to you?
00:21:12
You get a little Cuban Missile Crisis, you get Marcia Washington, you get the assassination in the end of JFK and and in the Selkmex.
00:21:21
In reference, insane.
00:21:23
Absolutely.
00:21:24
And I mean, there's no other way to because there's no dialogue and because there's no sense of inner life, every political moment overlay felt heavy-handed,
00:21:36
ham-fisted and over-deterministic.
00:21:39
It's like we don't want the Bob Dylan character to say, hey, I'm invested in equality.
00:21:45
Hey, I'm invested in keeping a black cultural tradition alive.
00:21:49
You know, I have some skepticisms about white co-optation of black cultural forms, but also on participating.
00:21:55
You know, you didn't get that from him seeing the lead belly photo on the street.
00:21:58
That's a, yeah.
00:21:59
Anyway, to me, if he would have said anything about those moments, that's one thing, but every time that something came out of his mouth in one of those moments, it was like,
00:22:10
man, well, that's rough or something like that.
00:22:13
So there's no sense.
00:22:15
It also, frankly, I think it's possible to make art in a political moment.
00:22:19
That's not explicitly political.
00:22:21
And obviously him choosing to make folk music and then evolving past the focusing.
00:22:26
There are political components to that, but it sort of implied that many of his creative gestures were directly downstream of the political realities in the moment.
00:22:36
And I just, I, look, I'm not a Dillonologist.
00:22:38
I can't speculate, but it doesn't seem that that's 100% true.
00:22:42
Obviously, there's moments of it, like, but I don't know that everything that he was doing in that era is a specific reaction to something that's heavy-handed and laid off.
00:22:50
It was a little neat to see Cuba, missile crisis, and then here, masters of war.
00:22:55
Yes.
00:22:56
But again, you know, I think it did the version of the 60s in the same way that it did the version of Dillon, like a little bit caricature, a little bit superficial surface level, skimming.
00:23:06
I'll push back a little bit and say, I do think it is true to Dillon that he's not going to be processing these pistol world historical moments allowed with his friends or girlfriends.
00:23:16
I think he's going to digest them and then find a way to put it.
00:23:20
And I thought the time when it was most moving is, I believe it's Newport 64, the year before he goes electric when he finally plays the times they are changing.
00:23:29
And you see the crowd start realizing what he's talking about and hearing the lines and there's whoops and hollers.
00:23:36
I'm like, that's the moment when I got chills.
00:23:38
I'm like, okay, you're selling me.
00:23:39
Did that really happen?
00:23:40
I have to go back and watch the tapes.
00:23:42
Any of this really happened?
00:23:43
I see, this is not the podcast where you're going to get a complete unknown fact check because I would say, I know more about Dillon than you do, but even my knowledge is fairly,
00:23:56
it's extremely incomplete and left over for my teenage years and early 20s.
00:24:02
So I can't talk about the validity of any one moment.
00:24:06
But I thought that was an effective punch.
00:24:09
Yes, I'd read this in our paper.
00:24:11
According to the book that this movie was based on Dillon goes electric.
00:24:15
There was a fight between Lomax and Grossman during or after the Newport set.
00:24:21
But again, a lot of that Newport stuff is apocryphal or fudged or moved around.
00:24:27
Johnny Cash wasn't there.
00:24:29
He was there the year before and they became pals.
00:24:32
Got a little slapstick with Johnny Cash in the car.
00:24:36
Yeah, I thought him putting his cook on the car and it's sliding off.
00:24:41
There was like, okay, there's a little spark here, but I felt like that was missing from most of the movie minus Bob's interactions with certain musicians.
00:24:51
I thought his stuff with Pete and Woody was a little pat, but his stuff with Joan and Johnny was better.
00:24:58
Yeah, and like you could see, is there, there's like a version of this film where it's like a very micro buddy relationship between Johnny and Bob.
00:25:07
Fascinating.
00:25:07
I mean, even the letters, like the love letters, they're sent to each other.
00:25:11
I don't know.
00:25:12
Again, if those are verbatim from the archives or those are made up, but if they're made up, they're well done.
00:25:18
Some of the best writing, I think, in the movie 100% than Bob Dillon lyrics.
00:25:21
100%.
00:25:22
Do you feel that does this set the table for a 2.0, Timmy returns Dillon to Electric Buggaloo.
00:25:30
I had the same thought and I do think if they wanted to make this a cinematic universe and do sequels and spin-offs, like does Joan get her own movie out of this,
00:25:41
does Johnny and Bob's road trip would love to see it.
00:25:46
You know, is there a motorcycle accident?
00:25:48
You know, you don't see the woman who became Dillon's wife very soon after this.
00:25:53
That's not there.
00:25:54
Maybe there's a, there's a whole film in their relationship.
00:25:57
A domestic lady.
00:25:58
A domestic fan, etc.
00:25:59
You know, motorcycle accident.
00:26:01
Yeah, I mean, there's so many moments in Dillon's career that this doesn't even begin to hint at that you could imagine.
00:26:10
They should have filmed two back-to-back like Wicked yes.
00:26:14
They should have filmed another way.
00:26:16
Bob Dillon colon for good.
00:26:18
Yes.
00:26:18
Is that what the Wicked sequels call?
00:26:21
I think it's cool.
00:26:22
Is it correct?
00:26:23
I think so.
00:26:24
And also like one of the things I was sort of surprised by, obviously Dillon comes a pop star in about 20 minutes in this film.
00:26:33
I wanted to see more of that.
00:26:36
You know, maybe I'm just spoiled by years of biopics about pop stars where you see fans chasing people down the road.
00:26:43
You get a touch of that here.
00:26:44
But again, his level of anxiety about it seems so high, but you don't actually get a lot of tactile versions of it except one time they're chasing him into a cab.
00:26:53
And then the other time he shows up to the kind of blue grassy bar in the east of village and then someone goes, that's Bob Dillon.
00:27:00
Which you know, and then he gets punched in the eye.
00:27:02
Yeah, which has a pop cast.
00:27:03
So, you know, it's like I can relate to that.
00:27:04
That happens from time to time.
00:27:06
Like, what are you going to do?
00:27:08
I thought the one scene that nailed that come up moment was when all of a sudden he's at the up-to-town party.
00:27:14
Yeah.
00:27:14
And I would have liked to linger there a little more.
00:27:17
You know, but they were rushing to get to another performance where they make him play a song on the couch.
00:27:21
But I would have liked more interaction because he gets in the elevator.
00:27:24
He says, "Oh, these people all want me to be something."
00:27:27
But I'm like, I didn't see that.
00:27:29
We didn't get to see that at that party.
00:27:31
No, it's like they just wanted you to sit on the couch.
00:27:33
Yeah, there's one to hang out with.
00:27:35
Yeah, like just like at every party.
00:27:37
Yeah.
00:27:37
To go back to the Timmy Chalamet, I'll bet it all.
00:27:40
Is there any other young actor that this works with?
00:27:45
See, I'm partial to unknowns, playing knowns.
00:27:50
I like the idea of if a character is so burned into the cultural imagination, you don't want to have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of the famous person.
00:28:01
Yeah.
00:28:02
I would have preferred somebody I'd never seen on screen before.
00:28:06
Yeah.
00:28:06
I think Austin Butler as Elvis is a great example.
00:28:09
Austin Butler had been in stuff before.
00:28:11
But you never seen him as a leading man.
00:28:13
Yeah.
00:28:13
To me, it was easy to watch Austin Butler play Elvis because he didn't seem like he was doing an impersonation as much as he was doing a version of him.
00:28:23
But I also just was never thinking about Austin Butler because I'd never thought about Austin Butler before.
00:28:28
Sure.
00:28:28
So I do think there's some universe in which you could street cast or unknown cast.
00:28:34
And I thought the Joan could be someone from the help.
00:28:37
The band, the band on the film, not the film, the band.
00:28:42
Another skinny jeans progenitor.
00:28:45
I mean, the, you know, Monica Barbaro, according to her Wikipedia, is on Chicago PD or whatever it is.
00:28:50
But and I guess I saw a couple of seconds of her in Top Gun Maverick, but having no association with her and allowing her, you know, she looks enough like Joan Baez.
00:29:00
I just wasn't really thinking about it.
00:29:02
It worked in that sense.
00:29:03
Would the movie get sold and come out on Christmas day and be the hit that it is?
00:29:07
Obviously not.
00:29:08
Right.
00:29:09
But if you wanted to make a smaller version of this, I think an unknown is the only other path.
00:29:15
Yeah.
00:29:15
I mean, it's obviously made by people who want to telegraph to a new generation that Bob Dylan was a pop star, yes, of his day.
00:29:25
And, you know, this year we're going to get the Bruce Springsteen version with Jeremy Allen White.
00:29:30
Yep.
00:29:30
And that's going to be zoomed in, I think even further than this, you know, I think reports that it focuses on Nebraska.
00:29:38
I'm interested to see if Jeremy Allen White can be a leading man.
00:29:42
He obviously hasn't succeeded at the level of Timothy Chalamet, especially in movies.
00:29:47
He's obviously, he's big on TV.
00:29:49
And in Calvin Klein out.
00:29:51
Yeah.
00:29:52
And in real life dating.
00:29:54
Yeah.
00:29:55
And I wonder if he's going to go as all in as Timothy Chalamet.
00:30:00
I mean, maybe this is a good moment to play.
00:30:02
I got a feeling by the black eyed piece phenomenal.
00:30:05
Oh, I know that we'll have a ball.
00:30:09
If you get down, go out and just lose it all.
00:30:13
I feel stressed out.
00:30:15
I want to let it go.
00:30:16
Let's go away.
00:30:17
I'm faced out and losing all control.
00:30:20
[MUSIC]
00:30:30
Timmy really wants it.
00:30:32
And I think sometimes people mistake Timothy Chalamet for an artist and a tour type.
00:32:19
And I don't think that that's correct.
00:30:33
And I saw a tweet recently that really reinforced that.
00:30:50
Not about his creative life, but about his personal life.
00:30:53
And look, we don't delve too much into personal lives here on pop gas.
00:30:57
But we're mindful of the discourses that are created out in the world.
00:31:02
This is a tweet from @sourhoesstarter.
00:31:05
Timothy dating Kylie really turned me off to him till I accepted that he's really just like a Hornie 20 something cool kid from New York, not an esoteric old soul with French proclivities.
00:31:17
This is the foundational tension of Timothy Chalamet, right?
00:31:23
This is the found is that people because of whether it's the name or because of how his visage looks or the types of roles he's taken, how he came up through independent films.
00:31:34
People tend to presume that he is interested.
00:31:37
He is an artist interested in making art exclusively.
00:31:41
And my counter point is I think Timmy is also in Dune and Timmy wants to be a big famous actor.
00:31:48
Yeah, he played Willy Wonka.
00:31:50
Literally, Willy Wonka.
00:31:52
So I think if you're willing to see this film, look, I'm known through that lens, the casting of Chalamet as Bob Dylan makes a lot of sense.
00:32:03
Number one, but it really makes sense when you see Timmy's parallel performance, which is to be the absolute king of the internet focused press run.
00:32:15
Yes.
00:32:15
And you say he's not an artist.
00:32:19
And yet, but I think his art was dancing to the Black Eyed Peas on an Instagram live in the style of Kanye West.
00:32:28
Was it in that style?
00:32:30
I guess it was sure.
00:32:31
Yeah, you know, Timothy Chalamet, a big rap fan, you know, at least one of us was there when he was knighted by little B at NYU.
00:32:39
I are in the shadow of also there.
00:32:43
No, I regret not going.
00:32:46
I know the failure.
00:32:47
Yeah, I had to get my, you know, my, my children at my alma mater to sneak me in, you know, to make sure I could, to make sure I could be there in what was a quite crowded room.
00:32:58
But no, I think Timothy Chalamet, for those of you who will understand those reverence, he's NYU.
00:33:04
He's not Bard or Sarah Lawrence.
00:33:06
Yes.
00:33:06
You know, like, I think he transferred a couple from Columbia, but he's, he's NYU in his soul.
00:33:12
And the stunts that he's pulling on this press door and the lead up and following the release of this film are very theater kid.
00:33:21
Can we, you want to go through some of them?
00:33:23
Yeah, I mean, how about, how about this?
00:33:25
This is a game I wanted to play with you.
00:33:26
Yeah, I'm going to read a couple things and you tell me which, which one Timothy Chalamet did not do to promote this Bob Dylan.
00:33:33
Okay.
00:33:34
So Timothy Chalamet making game day picks for college football on ESPN.
00:33:40
Okay.
00:33:40
Timothy Chalamet dressing up as a viral photo of Bob Dylan from 2003.
00:33:45
Timothy Chalamet on the broski report on TikTok.
00:33:48
Timothy Chalamet riding a bike.
00:33:51
I know you know this one's real.
00:33:53
Yeah.
00:33:53
Shattered it out in the intro onto the red carpet.
00:33:57
Timothy Chalamet buying brat with Nardwar.
00:34:00
And Timothy Chalamet showing up to the University of Minnesota marching band rehearsal.
00:34:06
He did all of us.
00:34:09
Yeah, I was going to say that if anything, it's the last one, but I thought maybe it was going to be a technicality that he didn't buy Brett, but he was with Nardwar.
00:34:18
I'm pretty sure he got Brett.
00:34:20
Yeah, he did all those things.
00:34:22
Yeah.
00:34:22
One more.
00:34:23
And what a, you know, he recreated the viral holding space meme, the Synthiary, the Ariana Grande one.
00:34:29
Timothy Chalamet, he's everywhere.
00:34:33
And one of the things that I've learned, especially in the last six months, is that the most valuable skill for an actor of this generation may not be acting in a film.
00:34:45
It may be successfully doing the gauntlet of the contemporary social media focused press run.
00:34:53
And it seems like there's someone on Timmy's team who strategizes and says, we're going to do A, we're going to do B, we're going to do C, he was on.
00:35:02
He was also going to do D-E-S.
00:35:04
Yeah.
00:35:04
He did.
00:35:04
He did.
00:35:05
He was on Theo Vaughn, although apparently that was because he heard maybe a makeup artist of his or a hairstyles, his listening to Theo Vaughn and then got into it.
00:35:14
But this is the thing.
00:35:15
He has an authenticity argument for everything.
00:35:17
You know, he goes on college game day and everyone's like, ah, he's going to bomb this.
00:35:21
And no, it turns out he listens to the ringer nonstop.
00:35:24
Great coat on that.
00:35:25
Great coat.
00:35:26
Great about the stash.
00:35:27
A little mustache.
00:35:28
I'm going to just, I'm going to allow it.
00:35:30
Yeah.
00:35:30
You know, he, he shows up on Nardewire.
00:35:33
He's going to nerd out about the biggest albums of last year and also, you know, Kid Cutty or whatever.
00:35:39
He loves.
00:35:40
I do want to push back a little bit because I think there's a string of internet commentator who's like Timothy Shalamet's breaking fame.
00:35:48
Like Timothy Shalamet's reinventing the press tour.
00:35:51
Timothy Shalamet is turning Hollywood on its head.
00:35:54
And I'm like, no, he's just the perfect avatar for this moment.
00:35:58
He's the best at it.
00:36:00
Yeah.
00:36:00
He's breaking it.
00:36:01
If he was a movie star in 1992, he would be really good at the playboy interview.
00:36:05
He would be really good on David Letterman.
00:36:06
Yeah.
00:36:07
He would be really good at on Howard Stern.
00:36:09
He would do all of the places that you needed to do to be a movie star in 1992.
00:36:13
He's the best at it.
00:36:14
And he just happens to be in 2025.
00:36:17
But he's also a native to 2025.
00:36:19
So it's like, it's, it's not a stretch.
00:36:22
And I don't think he's doing anything special.
00:36:24
He's just being a really famous person really well.
00:36:27
But I also think that there is a different kind of skill set that comes with being flexible enough to do each of these kinds of things.
00:36:37
And I don't think other actors of this generation could as effortlessly go from one of those, but ESPN to Nard War to so and so.
00:36:46
But what you're seeing is someone who is a voracious consumer of culture.
00:36:51
It's like, have you ever watched a talk show or watched the thing and be like, I could do that.
00:36:56
I could be in that video.
00:36:57
I could be in that photo.
00:36:59
He's like, I could.
00:37:01
And I will.
00:37:02
And I am.
00:37:03
And I'm going to be the best case scenario of being I'm not going to embarrass myself.
00:37:08
A lot of times when people end up on something like hot ones or whatever, it's like they're low key embarrassing.
00:37:13
They're not like the quote unquote true version of themselves or the version that's passing for truth in a social media press context is actually not that exciting.
00:37:22
They're actually kind of adults.
00:37:24
But he is savvy enough to present slightly different versions of himself that make for a good Nard War interview.
00:37:31
That make for a good ESPN appearance.
00:37:33
A good Theo Vaughan appearance.
00:37:35
There actually aren't that many people, I think, who could be as effective in each of those scenarios as he's been in the last couple of months.
00:37:42
Isn't that just make him a good actor?
00:37:44
Oh, of course.
00:37:45
With the room around him.
00:37:46
Yes.
00:37:47
Or kind of he might be a good personality who happens to act.
00:37:52
Because like, I watched this movie and I thought, I think he's better on the press run than he is in the movie.
00:37:59
See, I find him to be try hard in the press run in a way that I don't find him to be on screen.
00:38:06
I think he's a very natural on screen presence.
00:38:09
And I find that when he's playing Timothy Shalameh, he's jumping up and down and being like, look at me.
00:38:13
Aren't I cute and cool?
00:38:14
And I think that's how he is.
00:38:15
I think that's an authentic reflection of how he is.
00:38:18
Yeah.
00:38:19
So I want to pull back a minute and think about and hear what you think.
00:38:23
What is required of a participant in the modern press tour?
00:38:27
Is it authenticity?
00:38:29
Is it being able to be chill in a variety of different rooms with different kinds of people?
00:38:34
Like, is it just watching a lot of YouTube and knowing how you're supposed to act in a YouTube video?
00:38:39
Like, what is it that you think works?
00:38:41
So a few years ago, this one had been pre-COVID, I think.
00:38:45
I was writing about hot ones and hot ones in the early days.
00:38:48
I don't know if it was season two or three or whatever season it was, but talking about how these internet quasi talk shows had created almost like a new tier of challenge and entry point for celebrities.
00:39:03
And what these shows forced people to do was to present theoretically a less varnished version of themselves, more quote unquote true or authentic version of themselves.
00:39:13
Obviously, all my Irving Gothman fans know we're all performing all the time in every scenario, but at least it opened up the possibility that you might have an unscripted reaction to something.
00:39:24
That has now become the default of press tours.
00:39:27
It's not that you don't do Jimmy Fallon, it's not that you don't do Kimmel, but it's that the things that are likely to go the most viral, the things that are likely to be seen.
00:39:37
I would venture to say 50 times as many people have seen Timothy Chalene on one of those things that you described on their phones, then we'll go to the theater and see this movie.
00:39:49
Now, maybe that's just a calculation of where you spend your money and marketing dollars and movie studios be willing to outlay a certain amount of money for that kind of marketing strategy.
00:40:01
But I also think if you're Timothy Chalene, you know, wait a minute, 50 million people are going to see some additive version of all these things.
00:40:10
I better show out.
00:40:12
It's not the accident anymore.
00:40:14
It's not like I cried on hot ones.
00:40:16
I have an accidental viral moment.
00:40:18
Now a lot of people know who I am.
00:40:20
Now it's how do I show up?
00:40:22
It's our friend Andrew Garfield on modern love showing up and shedding tears.
00:40:27
Whether they were authentic or not, who knows?
00:40:30
But certainly effective.
00:40:33
It's Timothy Chalene being overly excited on ESPN is a game day college game day.
00:40:40
You know, it's people understanding how to play chicken shop date.
00:40:43
It's people understanding how to play sneaker shopping.
00:40:47
All these kind of like micro talk shows that used to be kind of the incidental side story.
00:40:52
And if they ever broke through to broader consciousness, it's because something went slightly wrong.
00:40:57
Now people know how to play those things.
00:40:59
People know to flirt with Amelia in a certain way.
00:41:02
They know to cash out with Joe La Puma in a certain way.
00:41:05
They understand that they are there to create the 32nd viral clip.
00:41:09
And I've got to assume there are people at movie studios or who work in publicity whose entire jobs now are to train their charges to best show up in those kinds of environment.
00:41:21
And I do think it's interesting to watch people do it across generations.
00:41:25
Like there are the people who are a natural on chicken shop date or hot ones or sneaker shopping because they watch those shows.
00:41:32
Yes.
00:41:32
And I think that's the Timmy bucket.
00:41:35
And then I think there are people who are so good at being charismatic that they can fit in wherever.
00:41:41
You know, I think of Daniel Craig on his press door for queer.
00:41:44
I feel like he was he was creating a lot of these moments even though he's an actor of another generation who you know might have succeeded on Letterman 15 years ago on the did his first James Bond movie,
00:41:57
but now can also succeed on hot ones or whatever it is he wanted to do for this movie, which again was trying to probably reach a younger audience than he's used to and that kind of thing.
00:42:07
I do wonder if for blockbusters, we're going to see people trying to recreate what has happened with Wicked and a complete unknown over the last six months or so where these press doors were so long,
00:42:22
so high wattage.
00:42:23
They seemingly said no to nothing.
00:42:26
Yeah.
00:42:27
You know, they spoke to a random journalist from a queer publication that that becomes a viral moment, and they also did SNL and went to, you know,
00:42:37
a NFL game and sat courts item.
00:42:39
Come on pop cast.
00:42:40
Come on.
00:42:41
Yes.
00:42:41
Coming for you.
00:42:42
Yeah.
00:42:43
I mean, the elephant in the room, obviously, is that we fitted into this very structure.
00:42:47
Yeah.
00:42:47
Both in an old school way.
00:42:49
You can do a newspaper profile with us, or you can come on our video podcast that might end up on TikTok.
00:42:55
E-mail us at popcastnametimes.com.
00:42:56
Yeah.
00:42:57
If you want to come on the show and you have something to promote that is going to be as big as a complete unknown our Wicked.
00:43:03
But Timmy Chalamet definitely wants to come on pop cast and talk about like rock-ass records.
00:43:09
Yeah.
00:43:09
For sure.
00:43:10
But I do think that we're going to get a lot of bad versions of this.
00:43:15
A lot of, you know, authentic, a lot of off-putting, truly tri-hard.
00:43:20
Like, I know what you're saying about how Chalamet has come off, but I think that that's true to his personality.
00:43:25
I think he is genuinely excited to talk to Nard War, even if the contrivance of it we see the contrivance of it.
00:43:32
But for him, you still get to talk to Nard War.
00:43:35
Sure.
00:43:36
Yes.
00:43:36
And I do believe his excitement, it's just he's a little bit of a nudge, you know, like in general.
00:43:45
But I do think the flip side of a press tour that seemingly succeeds on every level is another kind of we've seen a lot recently,
00:43:55
which is the sort of train rec aversion.
00:43:58
I'm thinking of Don't worry Darling, the Olivia Wild movie with Harry Styles and turned into spitgate, you know, Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni.
00:44:07
We won't linger on, but who, you know, we're in a war of tabloid rumor.
00:44:13
Yeah.
00:44:14
Subtweets.
00:44:15
A head of that film.
00:44:17
You know, I think those seem to work also.
00:44:21
Oh, interesting.
00:44:23
You know, and I think, you know, even an awkward moment between your stars and a YouTube show or at a or at an event or whatever draws attention.
00:44:33
And I think you're going to see people aiming for a complete unknown or wicked and landing at Don't worry, darling.
00:44:41
Do you think from a box office perspective, it's going to and but you don't think it's going to make a difference for a box office.
00:44:47
I mean, I think fans are pretty agnostic when you get to the level of fame of some of these people.
00:44:52
Like I'd like to see an awkward interview with Harry Styles, the same as I'd like to see a winning interview with Timothy Chalamet, especially if you're of that stand base,
00:45:03
you know.
00:45:04
Well, what do you take about my point or thought that the press tour is paradoxically more important than the film?
00:45:12
Because like one thing we had been joking about separately was about the Blake live of Justin Bell, don't you think?
00:45:17
And how all of this is about the worst movie ever made, right?
00:45:20
Now, maybe it was financially successful, but it was, right, but it's the worst.
00:45:24
You know, it's terrible.
00:45:25
I have the worst book ever.
00:45:26
Yeah, I haven't read it.
00:45:27
I haven't seen it, but like it's I'm going to go with you and say it's a bad movie.
00:45:31
Is it more important that you win the press tour when by winning or when by losing?
00:45:36
Is that ultimately going to be more important because of the sheer volume of people who are going to touch that than the film itself?
00:45:43
Like, will we remember Timothy Chalamet as Bob Dylan in 2024 to 25?
00:45:48
Or are we going to remember Timmy Chalamet in the hot pink coat on ESPN?
00:45:52
Are we going to remember holding the records with Nard War?
00:45:56
I think it's moving in the direction that pop music is also moving, which is we're going to remember eras.
00:46:02
We're going to remember the season when Timothy Chalamet was out here, and we might not even remember why he was out here, but we're going to remember late 2024 into early 2025.
00:46:15
Timothy Chalamet was everywhere, and the product in the middle of that will be lost to history.
00:46:21
And you'll say, Oh, that's when he had the mustache, right?
00:46:24
He was he was in that zone.
00:46:25
And I think we even do this a bit with our old school celebrities, the tumblrification of someone.
00:46:30
You know, you're looking back at Monica Balucci photos and like, you know, a certain era of red carpet dress, but you don't know necessarily what she was promoting or Nicole Kidman,
00:46:43
who's an interesting example of someone who's been able to bridge old Hollywood, middle Hollywood, and new Hollywood.
00:46:50
You know, I do wonder, I reminded myself talking about Nicole Kidman, like, I do wonder why we haven't seen a version of the Jimmy Prestor from Harris Dickinson, who's the male lead in baby girl with Nicole Kidman.
00:47:03
And I think is, you know, I think people are dare I say salivating to get more of him, and yet he hasn't ascended to that.
00:47:11
Is he one of the style of love?
00:47:13
He might be, but I would I think that on the back end or even the front end of baby girl, he could have brought himself to that salivate level because there's so much thirst for him frankly in all senses,
00:47:25
but I do think there are people who are still sitting it out.
00:47:29
Like I wonder if Jacob Alority, who we always talk about as, you know, a would be leading man of the moment, if he's sitting back and being like, like, it's I need to get I need to get me some of that,
00:47:40
you know, and I was just waiting for the waiting for the worry if there's someone who's going to do like the dare I say like the alt version of it, where it's like, maybe there's some like bass fishing podcasts that we don't know about.
00:47:52
And instead of doing chicken shop date or sneaker shopping, you do bass fishing with Billy or something.
00:47:58
I do think now that those things have become the mainstream, like you said, they used to be the alt option.
00:48:05
Now, they're basically on the same level, if not above a regular late night show.
00:48:10
And I do wonder if someone will come along and in a Dylan-esque way, try to subvert that like you're saying and show up places that you wouldn't expect them.
00:48:19
That would be my guess.
00:48:21
Of course, the one thing we haven't addressed in the press store is the press stop still to come for Chalamet, which is somehow still the showcase for movie stars and musicians who have are having a crowning moment.
00:48:38
And that's SNL.
00:48:39
Yeah.
00:48:40
So not this week, but the following week by the time you hear this, it'll be about a week away.
00:48:45
Yeah, we're going to have Timothy Chalamet as both the host and the musical guest on SNL.
00:48:51
Rapping.
00:48:52
I'm going to say like, is he doing performance art to the Black Eyed Peas in silhouette?
00:48:58
Is he doing what what's the song was the soldier boy?
00:49:01
He did soldier boy first talent show in high school?
00:49:03
Yes.
00:49:04
I'd love to see a crank that doing crank that.
00:49:06
Is he doing Dylan covers?
00:49:08
Or is he simply holding space for the man himself and he's going to be shrieking an auto tune in the background while Bob Dylan sings a tonally on the SNL stage where I think he hasn't been since,
00:49:21
you know, the late 70s or something.
00:49:23
Another thing I did before we go.
00:49:25
So I reviewed a Bob Dylan concert once.
00:49:27
Do you know this?
00:49:28
No, but I went to old cellar, remember that.
00:49:31
I do remember that.
00:49:32
I went to a show at a minorly baseball stadium in Lakewood, New Jersey that was Willie Nelson, John Mellon Camp and Bob Dylan.
00:49:39
They were doing a tour of minorly baseball stadiums.
00:49:42
Wow.
00:49:43
And in my memory, I was like, I don't remember that show being very good.
00:49:47
It was really rainy.
00:49:48
It's like a two plus hour drive each way.
00:49:51
But I reread it last night.
00:49:54
And apparently something I learned about myself.
00:49:56
You loved it.
00:49:57
I loved it.
00:49:58
I loved Bob Dylan.
00:50:01
I loved it.
00:50:02
I said he has an uneasy relationship with Melody.
00:50:05
Yes.
00:50:07
Fact check.
00:50:08
True.
00:50:09
Yes.
00:50:10
But I loved it.
00:50:11
I basically said, what a what a skamp this guy is.
00:50:14
What a what a just fastening.
00:50:17
He's a punk.
00:50:17
You related to his punk energy.
00:50:20
I really did.
00:50:21
Should we go out with times they are a change in which maybe Timmy Chalene will sing with Robert Zimmerman on Saturday Night Live next week.
00:50:28
I was going to suggest Bob Live on SNL.
00:50:30
Got to serve somebody.
00:50:31
That sounds great.
00:50:32
I love to I love to hear it.
00:50:34
Never heard it before.
00:50:35
That's our show.
00:50:36
Joe.
00:50:37
Thanks so much.
00:50:38
Nick Pittman is in the room.
00:50:40
Pedro Rosado is producing at home every episode of Popcast ever is at ny times dot com slash popcast check us out on youtube youtube dot com slash popcast IG and Tik Tok at Popcast Deluxe.
00:50:52
We'll be back next week.
00:50:54
And we're about doing something.
00:51:10
Do we are?
00:51:15
