Are the Grammys … Good Now? Beyoncé, Chappell, Billie, Kendrick & Taylor Face Off
Are the Grammys … Good Now? Beyoncé, Chappell, Billie, Kendrick & Taylor Face OffUpdate: 2025-01-30
Share
Description
Previewing the major categories and making our personal picks of who will win vs. who should win at the surprisingly relevant (!) Grammy Awards on Sunday.Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything
from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Comments
Top Podcasts
The Best New Comedy Podcast Right Now – June 2024The Best News Podcast Right Now – June 2024The Best New Business Podcast Right Now – June 2024The Best New Sports Podcast Right Now – June 2024The Best New True Crime Podcast Right Now – June 2024The Best New Joe Rogan Experience Podcast Right Now – June 20The Best New Dan Bongino Show Podcast Right Now – June 20The Best New Mark Levin Podcast – June 2024
In Channel
Download from Google Play
Download from App Store
United States00:00
00:00
1.0x
0.5x
0.8x
1.0x
1.25x
1.5x
2.0x
3.0x
Sleep Timer
Off
End of Episode
5 Minutes
10 Minutes
15 Minutes
30 Minutes
45 Minutes
60 Minutes
120 Minutes
Transcript
00:00:00
The New York Times app has all this stuff that you may not have seen.
00:00:03
The way the tabs are at the top with all of the different sections.
00:00:06
I can immediately navigate to something that matches what I'm feeling.
00:00:10
Playbordal or connections, and then swipe over to read today's headlines.
00:00:14
There's an article next to a recipe, next to games, and it's just easy to get everything in one place.
00:00:21
This app is essential.
00:00:23
The New York Times app, all of the times, all in one place.
00:00:27
Download it now at nytimes.com/app.
00:00:31
Five, six, five, six, seven, eight.
00:00:36
Welcome to the New York Times pop cast, your Tony Bennett duet of music music and criticism.
00:00:41
I'm John Kiermanica, critic of the New York Times.
00:00:43
I'm Joe Cuscarli, I'm a reporter at The New York Times.
00:00:48
Joe, you know what I'm talking about?
00:00:55
Talking about the Grammys, the Grammys are back, they're coming up this weekend.
00:01:00
What is your level of dread?
00:01:01
What's your level of like sense of foreboding?
00:01:04
What if I told you that the Grammys are okay this year?
00:01:10
I do kind of know that to be true.
00:01:11
The nominations at least, yeah, I do think it's really hard to look at this full slate of nominees and not feel like this is pretty much what happened in popular music in 2024.
00:01:24
So your programies?
00:01:25
I would say I'm softened towards the Grammys.
00:01:27
I think between the two of us, we've probably been covering this show for a quarter of a century.
00:01:33
How dare you say that to such a young person as myself?
00:01:38
And I just think that we've seen way worse.
00:01:42
So what we're going to do here today is we're going to go through what we think are the most important or the most interesting categories here, both in terms of what they say about where music is,
00:01:54
what popular music is, but also where the recording economy the Grammy Awards are.
00:01:59
And we're going to stop along the way to point out some of the outliers because those do still exist, like there are still a lot of Grammy moments.
00:02:07
Hedgecratchers.
00:02:08
Within these nominees, but we're going to do a run through some of the major categories and some of the smaller categories that we think got it either really wrong or really right.
00:02:18
Yeah, and I think before we go in there, a couple things, I think it's important to contextualize that.
00:02:24
If you go back to the Grammys five, 10, 15 years ago, often what you had was a nominating body that would reward older musicians.
00:02:32
What you didn't really have was a sense of the Grammys were in any kind of dialogue with contemporary popular music, and the Grammys are interesting because it ostensibly rewards the best that is happening in the music business,
00:02:45
but it never felt like it rewarded either the most successful or even the most critically acclaimed.
00:02:52
It was sort of like who are our buddies or what records did we play on our turntables growing up and did they put out an album this year?
00:02:58
Yeah.
00:02:59
And I think there was a changing of the guard five or so years ago at the Grammy Awards.
00:03:06
And part of what this new batch of leadership has tried to do is much like you've seen with the Academy Awards and the Oscars is replenish the voter rolls, like push out some old people,
00:03:17
bring in some new people, make sure it's diverse, make sure also that people are actually voting.
00:03:22
Like I think one thing that people don't realize, it sounds simple to say, but the Grammy Awards are not some like objective decree.
00:03:31
They are the result of returned ballots, like voting for anything.
00:03:36
Just some people.
00:03:37
Yeah, like it depends who can say what?
00:03:38
Who can say what people.
00:03:39
Does that vote for you?
00:03:40
Old, does that skew white?
00:03:42
Like maybe, like who's actually going to sit down, listen to this music or not listen to this music?
00:03:48
I'm often thinking of Grammy coverage in terms of defense, rarely do I look at the Grammys and think, this is going to be a fun show, this is going to be reflective of contemporary popular music.
00:04:00
I do agree with you that when I looked at this year's nominees, by and large I thought, okay, these are things that dare I say we're on my year endless last year.
00:04:09
So what we're going to do, we're going to talk about 10 or 12 categories, we're going to say who we think will win, and we're also going to kind of surprise each other a little bit.
00:04:19
You want to talk about the envelopes?
00:04:20
Yeah, so I have a stack of envelopes here, not the winners of the Grammy Awards.
00:04:25
We don't have our hands on those, just we don't work for an accounting.
00:04:29
But these are your picks, are my picks.
00:04:32
In the categories we've chosen, who I'd vote for, for who you think should win.
00:04:35
Yes.
00:04:36
And I don't know who you picked, you don't know who I picked.
00:04:39
Correct.
00:04:40
We're going to find out what we are on Mike.
00:04:42
That's right.
00:04:43
So let's jump into the categories.
00:04:46
Let's go in.
00:04:47
All right, we're going to start with the best new artist.
00:04:49
It's a great place to start, often one of the most baffling categories in all of the Grammys.
00:04:55
Yeah, I mean, this is a place where Esperanza Spalding, the Drake and Justin Bieber, famously.
00:05:01
First of all, shout out Esperanza Spalding, a great American musician, genuinely.
00:05:06
And no chance.
00:05:07
Was it best United States new artist beating out to Canadians?
00:05:12
Is that what happened?
00:05:13
They were, they were in fact, it was a, it was a small, it was a quiddle, a tiny quiddle.
00:05:18
In recent years, this is a category that's gone to do Alipa, Billy Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo, Megan the Stallion, two out of four is not bad, which like,
00:05:28
okay, those are some of the artists that went on to become Alistars and also do Alipa.
00:05:35
And yet in the last few years, this award went to Victoria Monet and before that Samarro Joy, which are musicians who are very accomplished in their own right, but are more genre focused,
00:05:46
I would say, less representative of what's happening in the center mainstream.
00:05:52
So let's run through these nominees.
00:05:54
We've got Sabrina Carpenter, great, maybe not a new artist.
00:06:00
This is a, again, yeah, new to most, right.
00:06:04
It's a classic Grammys thing, Sabrina Carpenter is on her sixth album, but this is the year that she broke through.
00:06:10
Dare I say, if you have a tween or a tween or are us, Sabrina Carpenter is not new.
00:06:17
Yeah.
00:06:18
And I think we're going to be talking about her more as we move forward.
00:06:20
So Chappelrone, same thing, huge year last year, genuinely new artist coming off of her first album, had an extremely big public breakthrough in the calendar year 2024.
00:06:33
And Chappelrone also essentially the queer, full-chero of the moment in popular music.
00:06:40
Absolutely.
00:06:41
And we'll come back to her, Shibuzi.
00:06:45
Same thing, this is, you know, a rapper-turned-country hitmaker?
00:06:50
Yeah, this is someone who has done maybe the purest hybrid of country and hip-hop in terms of song structure and subject matter that we've seen,
00:07:02
especially in the wake of a few years of people really toying with that, post-Lol Masex.
00:07:08
Again, a subject that we will return to later in this episode.
00:07:11
We have Dochi.
00:07:12
We do.
00:07:13
Another new prospect from Kendrick Lamar's former label, TDE, she's a big industry favorite right now.
00:07:21
She's getting a lot of push.
00:07:22
She's out here, a lot of star power, fancy music videos.
00:07:27
I think we'll be hearing the concept.
00:07:28
High concept.
00:07:29
I think we'll be hearing more from Dochi in future years.
00:07:32
And then we get to the other half of the best new artist now.
00:07:35
We mean the actual hitmakers.
00:07:38
Teddy Swims had a big target in CBS record called "Lose Control."
00:07:51
Which is kind of like a soul rock metal thing gigantic gauges and huge gauges, although I feel like downplaying the gauges as he's getting more famous.
00:08:03
But Teddy Swims, one big hit, you were talking about hip makers, is Teddy Swims and the hip maker, I don't know, he's made a hit, just.
00:08:10
But I don't know if he's engaged in the ongoing process of making hits.
00:08:14
He has a hit.
00:08:18
Benson Boone is here, has a song called "Beautiful Things."
00:08:28
In the video, he's dancing on like a mountain, he's yelping, he's beautiful, that like he's just...that's how he's yelping.
00:08:39
That's literally signed me up for next year, I can do the cover version.
00:08:43
These are people who have had one breakthrough.
00:08:47
And in Grammyland, one guitar driven breakthrough actually qualifies as like a big deal.
00:08:53
There's also a band here, Crangman.
00:09:02
It's a bit of like a, I'd call them journey men, like this has been a band for a long time.
00:09:07
It's a lot of people.
00:09:08
Not a new band.
00:09:09
Not a new band, not a new artist, as far as I could tell, didn't really have their breakthrough last year.
00:09:14
Is it rude to say this is a band for people that don't like bands?
00:09:17
I was going to say this band tops a lot of people's Spotify year endless, but those people don't listen to music.
00:09:23
They just put on sounds in the background while they do their lingerie.
00:09:28
I do find this tough and a bizarre year to be nominated in this category.
00:09:32
For all the Crangman fans, if they stop to your Spotify wrap up, this is not an attack on you.
00:09:39
This is also an important thing that we should probably get out of the way early in this episode.
00:09:43
If we are potentially being dismissive or ungenerous to your favorite, please continue to have that person or artist as your favorite.
00:09:55
We're just two guys.
00:09:57
Hold tight to your favorites.
00:09:59
The eighth nominee here is Ray.
00:10:02
It's a British R&B soul singer.
00:10:09
Yeah.
00:10:10
Ray is someone who I feel like in British pop soul, there are performers in this style.
00:10:18
Like every couple of years, that sort of bubble up and Ray is a good example of this.
00:10:23
I don't think Ray has much of a U.S.
00:10:27
presence.
00:10:28
It's a little bit surprising to see Ray in this list.
00:10:30
And Ray is also in songwriter of the year, which we'll get to.
00:10:33
Separate that.
00:10:34
Yep.
00:10:35
All right, John.
00:10:36
Who's going to win this category?
00:10:37
Who will win the Grammy Award for Best New Artist?
00:10:41
Chapel Roan's going to win.
00:10:42
I agree.
00:10:43
I agree.
00:10:44
I know.
00:10:45
You wanted me to stay.
00:10:46
But I can't know all the crazy stuff.
00:10:48
Chapel Roan is going to win.
00:10:49
And in my mind, Chapel Roan had the best year and also had the best year in a way that was completely legible to both thoughtful Grammy voters and dare I say unthoughtful Grammy voters.
00:11:03
Big hits that are reddulent of big, arena-sized 80s pop.
00:11:09
If you liked Lady Gaga, you'll like Chapel Roan.
00:11:12
If you liked certain early Madonna, you'll like Chapel Roan.
00:11:16
If you're down with the kids, if you have kids, you'll like Chapel Roan.
00:11:19
Chapel is a really, really good songwriter.
00:11:23
Chapel Roan also has a visual presentation that is unmatched.
00:11:27
And Chapel Roan is maybe outside of Sabrina Carpenter on this list, is the only person who I think genuinely understands herself to be a true pop star, which is to say she's struggling with it.
00:11:39
She's pushing back.
00:11:40
She's fighting.
00:11:41
She's pushing the walls away.
00:11:42
She's snapping at paparazzi.
00:11:44
She's complaining about press coverage.
00:11:46
This is real 80s pop star stuff, which is great as someone who grew up then.
00:11:51
So, to me, it's Chapel Roan.
00:11:53
I think it's the obvious choice and the counter-intuitive choice altogether.
00:11:57
I agree.
00:11:58
I think Chapel, her only real competition here is Sabrina Carpenter.
00:12:04
I think probably Dochi has a little bit of an upset potential in there.
00:12:09
I think Craneman has the upset potential.
00:12:12
I think Craneman has the upset potential.
00:12:15
That's it.
00:12:16
Between Chapel and Sabrina, I think Chapel is the old school star is born, best new artist of this bunch.
00:12:23
Sabrina Carpenter was a child star.
00:12:25
She's been working her way through Chapel boom, like explosion from tiny club to sold out show, you know, in the span of weeks or months, hundreds of thousands of people watching her at festivals.
00:12:38
I think, if you know anything about music from last year, you know that she was the best new artist.
00:12:44
All right.
00:12:45
We're going to read each other's picks for who should win this category, but I have a feeling that they're going to win.
00:12:50
I think this is, yes.
00:12:51
You go first.
00:12:52
This is Chapel's category, right?
00:12:54
We agree.
00:12:55
You also said Chapel should win.
00:12:56
Yes.
00:12:57
No surprise.
00:12:58
No surprise.
00:12:59
No surprise.
00:13:00
Chapel Roan.
00:13:01
So, if she doesn't win, you can blame her because we're so certain that she will unshoot.
00:13:09
This seems like as close to a lock as any of the big four categories are.
00:13:14
We're going to talk about a bunch of categories today, but there are in the Grammy parlance, the big four, best new artist, song of the year, record of the year, and album of the year.
00:13:23
Of the four, this is the one I will be stupified.
00:13:27
If someone opens an envelope and says the words, Benson boom, I'm with you.
00:13:32
Okay.
00:13:33
You're going to see just how strong this crop of best new artist nominees are as we go through these next couple of categories because they're competing in a lot of the major ones and a lot of also the pop categories,
00:13:45
which are by definition some of the most loaded categories on this list.
00:13:49
So, I'd like to talk a little bit about pop solo performance, which is essentially the pop song of the year category because I think it's an interesting lay of the land.
00:14:01
So, nominees in this category are Bodyguard by Beyoncé.
00:14:07
From Cowboy Carter, a espresso by Sabrina Carpenter, Apple by Charlie XX from Brad,
00:14:19
Birds of a Feather by Billie Eilish, from her album Hit Me, Heart and Soft, and then Good Luck Babe by Chapel Rowne,
00:14:32
which interestingly is not on the album that she broke through with, it is the sort of standalone single after the fact anything stand out to you in this category.
00:14:42
I'm pleased to see Sabrina and Chapel here because I think something that has happened with young stars is they say, oh, we'll give you a best new artist nomination, but we won't actually honor your art specifically.
00:14:54
These to me are the best pop songs of the year, by and large, the Billie song, the Chapel song, and the Sabrina song, and also Charlie XX had a song.
00:15:06
I agree.
00:15:07
Who do you think is going to win this category?
00:15:09
That said, I do think Billie Eilish is going to win this category.
00:15:16
I do too.
00:15:17
Yeah, Billie Eilish is, there must be like a German word for a word show favorite who will win in every category that they are nominated in despite the quality or relevance of the work that they release.
00:15:30
If our German fans have an idea of that word, please let us know on email.
00:15:35
Billie Eilish is, I have often referred to her as the Tony Bennett of this generation.
00:15:41
Billie Eilish is someone who passes as a kind of edgy youthful star, but inside beats the heart of truly a classic crewing singer from the fifties that resonated loudly for Grammy voters.
00:15:59
Multiple times already.
00:16:00
Billie has won awards that she deserved.
00:16:03
She has won awards that she should not have won.
00:16:06
This seems like an opportunity for the Grammys, especially given some of the things we're going to talk about later in the episode to kind of say, okay, we still want Billie here.
00:16:14
So we're going to give Billie this one and we're going to keep maybe Sabrina and Chapel out of this one.
00:16:19
Yeah, you alluded to this, but Billie Eilish swept the big four categories in her first Grammy Awards in 2020, which was 18 years old.
00:16:27
No one had done that since the beloved Christopher Cross in the early 80s.
00:16:32
Billie won Best New Artist, album, song, and record of the year.
00:16:36
She went on to win some of those categories multiple times already.
00:16:40
She has two Oscars for her songwriting.
00:16:43
Billie could release voice notes, literal just memos off her phone and get nominated in these categories.
00:16:50
If I was someone in competition with Billie, I would find that probably pretty frustrating, but I think this song is a legitimately great song.
00:16:57
That's what I'm going to say.
00:16:58
I'm not mad at it, but it has a heavy bias in its favor that I'm not sure that the newer artists in this category can overcome.
00:17:07
Birds of a Feather has the weird thing where it's become Billie Eilish's defining arguably most popular song, which is strange because I find it to be the least Billie Eilish of all Billie Eilish hits.
00:17:22
When I think of an old Billie Eilish song, that's a defining Billie Eilish song, it has this kind of like subterranean quality.
00:17:28
It's like almost like she's being pulled into the song and Birds of a Feather, obviously a lot of the vocal is like power whispered, but getting into a high register, you're hearing a crisp,
00:17:40
clean vocal.
00:17:41
It's maybe one of the first Billie Eilish hits that I thought anyone could sing, whereas most old Billie Eilish songs only Billie could sing.
00:17:49
I agree, but it's so straightforward that I think in this category,
00:18:00
pop solo performance, it has an easy path to victory, so we agree there.
00:18:06
But who should win?
00:18:09
I think we're going to match again here, Chappelrone.
00:18:13
Chappelrone, good luck, baby.
00:18:20
Okay, so when I went to see Chappelrone perform in Tennessee, I knew Chappelrone was good.
00:18:27
I understood that she'd be a powerful singer.
00:18:30
I understood that the fans were going to be decked out in pink and camo and sometimes pink camo.
00:18:37
What I don't think I was prepared for was how sturdy the structure of the songs was going to feel.
00:18:43
And all the songs off the album, I was like, damn, these are like incredibly solid.
00:18:49
And then when she got to good luck, babe, I was just slack-jawed.
00:18:53
I literally like everybody around me is losing it.
00:18:56
And I'm just there like, because when you hear something that you know you're going to be hearing for the next 50 years, for the first time in that way, like I'd heard good luck babe dozens of times,
00:19:08
but hearing it in that environment, I was like, oh, we are going to be living with this song.
00:19:12
This is, I mean, I forget what I wrote it.
00:19:14
Yeah, you called it a new pop singer.
00:19:16
A new singer.
00:19:17
It's a modern singer.
00:19:18
It's a modern singer.
00:19:20
It is witty, it is caustic, it's elegant, but it's also spare.
00:19:27
She accomplishes a lot with just a few gestures.
00:19:30
And so to me, when I look at this list, as much as I like the other songs on it, it's got to be Chappelrone.
00:19:35
I also think, crucially, this category is for pop performance and she sells it.
00:19:40
Period.
00:19:41
Let's run through pop vocal album real quick.
00:19:51
Let's nominees here, shortened sweep by Sabrina Carpenter, hit me hard and soft by Billie Eilish, eternal sunshine by Ariana Grande, managed to put on an album while promoting Wicked.
00:20:06
Chappelrone's rise and fall of the Midwest princess.
00:20:10
And the tortured poets department by Taylor Swift.
00:20:13
An album that was born 30 years ago, at last year's Grammy ceremony, I can't believe we've arrived in a place where we say the Taylor Swift is nominated for Grammy and like our default reaction is a groan because I'm old enough to remember when it was a source of pride that the Grammys were taking note of Taylor Swift.
00:20:33
And now, this feels, this is bullying culture, is that what this is?
00:20:40
On whose part?
00:20:41
Well, like you said, Taylor announced this album at the Grammys last year, which almost felt like a little bit of a taunt, like I'll be back, coming for you guys this time,
00:20:51
literally like, hold my place.
00:20:54
Hold the mark.
00:20:55
To me, again, outside of the Ariana Grande record, which is a fine record, but I-- It's a good album.
00:21:00
But kind of not a era defining or year defining record, I guess she's here because she's Ariana Grande.
00:21:06
Yes, but these are the correct albums to be nominated.
00:21:10
That said, Taylor's gonna win.
00:21:13
I was supposed to be sent away, but they forgot to come and get me.
00:21:22
You think so?
00:21:23
I'm not saying I support that necessarily, but Taylor's gonna win.
00:21:26
And I think the reason Taylor's gonna win is because I don't think Taylor's gonna win anything else.
00:21:30
Okay, you think this is where they're like, all right, this is the consolation.
00:21:34
This is the consolation, Grammys.
00:21:35
Great work, Queen.
00:21:36
We'll see you next time.
00:21:37
We'll see you next time.
00:21:38
Yeah, great tour.
00:21:39
We'll see you next time.
00:21:40
We'll see you next time.
00:21:41
Great tour.
00:21:42
Great gowns.
00:21:43
I think Billy's gonna win.
00:21:44
Oh, interesting.
00:21:45
For all the reasons we talked about Birds of the Feather,
00:21:58
hit me hard and soft, it's a real album.
00:22:06
I agree.
00:22:07
Ten songs, super tight, really made as an album.
00:22:10
I did a piece with Billy and Phineas, her brother who writes and produces their music.
00:22:14
They talked about the inspirations for this album.
00:22:16
They were very much like, we made an album, like Grammys love that.
00:22:20
So keep that in mind.
00:22:22
I hear Alton as God.
00:22:25
Someone said that.
00:22:26
I think YouTube link is God personally, but you know, what are you gonna do?
00:22:30
All right, let's open the envelopes and find out who we think should win this category.
00:22:36
I'm gonna do yours first.
00:22:37
Please do.
00:22:38
I think you're gonna pick Chapel again.
00:22:41
Oh, are we just gonna match every pick?
00:22:44
I thought we were supposed to disagree.
00:22:46
I think Sabrina Carpenter.
00:22:48
I thought this was gonna be my curveball, but apparently so did you.
00:22:51
Sabrina Carpenter, short and sweet.
00:22:52
Short win.
00:22:53
Pop vocal album of the year.
00:22:54
Please, please, please, don't prove I'm right.
00:23:01
This is actually not in my mind a slight of chapel.
00:23:04
It's more when I'm thinking of the specific needs of this category and what Sabrina does so well, be a pop star, be a pop star, and also a good singer doesn't really get credit for me.
00:23:17
You're a good singer because people are kind of preoccupied with the presentation, a bonafide new idea of what a contemporary pop singer can do.
00:23:25
Clever, body, not over rock theatrical, but kind of bringing back like a 50s kind of glamour success.
00:23:36
Yeah, this is something that we're not seeing anybody else doing.
00:23:40
All together when I went back, this album also was very high on my year end album list.
00:23:44
Chapples album came out in 2023, so it didn't count.
00:23:47
But this album was very high on my 2024 year on album list because the more I listened to it, the more I heard it being all of a piece.
00:23:55
So to me, pop vocal album?
00:23:58
This is the thing.
00:23:59
I tried to make this argument to you when it came out, glad you finally came around.
00:24:02
Sorry.
00:24:03
All right, we're going to get into some of the bigger categories in a sec.
00:24:08
We'll be right back.
00:24:11
I'm Jonathan Swan.
00:24:12
I'm a reporter at The New York Times.
00:24:14
You know, when people think about the media, your favorite podcast, your cable news, panels, and different things, I think it's fair to say that myself and my reporting colleagues at The New York Times existed the more unglamorous end of that spectrum.
00:24:27
Our job is to dig out the facts that provide a foundation for these conversations.
00:24:31
These facts don't just come out of the ether.
00:24:34
It requires reporters to spend hours upon hours talking to sources, digging up documents.
00:24:39
Also, if the story is a story that a powerful person doesn't want in print, there's threats of lawsuits and all kinds of things.
00:24:46
So it's a really massive operation.
00:24:49
There aren't that many places anymore who invest at that level in journalism.
00:24:54
Without a well-funded and rigorous, free press, people in power have much more leeway to do whatever the heck it is that they want to do.
00:25:01
If you think that it's worthwhile to have journalists on the job digging out information, you can subscribe to The New York Times because without you, none of us can do the work that we do.
00:25:13
Okay, we're back.
00:25:16
It's podcast.
00:25:17
It's the Grammy episode.
00:25:18
It's previews.
00:25:19
It's predictions.
00:25:21
It's hopes and dreams.
00:25:22
Yeah.
00:25:23
And we're going to talk about two of the biggest Grammy categories.
00:25:26
But two categories that we have to explain every year because no one knows the difference between song of the year and record of the year, including dare I say many Grammy voters.
00:25:35
Right.
00:25:36
We see you.
00:25:37
So let's be clear.
00:25:38
Song of the year is a songwriter's award.
00:25:40
This goes to the writers of the song for the composition itself.
00:25:44
Imagine Kendrick Lamar's not like us in sheet music.
00:25:48
Kendrick Lamar maybe does use a quill to record the song.
00:25:53
Record of the year is for the recording.
00:25:54
That's the song itself.
00:25:56
This is a award for producers and performers often these things overlap, but not always.
00:26:03
Yes.
00:26:04
Sabrina Carpenter is actually a good telling example because she has two songs in these categories, one per category.
00:26:11
And I think they're quite strategic.
00:26:13
So in record of the year, she has a espresso.
00:26:16
And in song of the year, she has please, please, please.
00:26:19
Both of these were huge hits for her, but I think where they are says something about the category itself.
00:26:25
Let's talk about song first espresso, as you point out is the frothy, fun, pop hit.
00:26:32
That's the breakthrough.
00:26:33
If you ask anybody what Sabrina Carpenter did last year, they would point to espresso.
00:26:38
It is the defining record, please, please, please.
00:26:42
As you were saying for many months, that's the connoisseur record.
00:26:45
Yeah.
00:26:46
It's a little bit more sneakily written.
00:26:47
It's a little bit smarter in conception.
00:26:49
It doesn't have a couple of those weird lyrical hiccups that make espresso unique.
00:26:55
But if anything, it's more cleverly constructed.
00:26:57
Yeah.
00:26:58
And it's more of a song.
00:26:59
I know I have good judgement.
00:27:02
I know I have good taste.
00:27:04
There's a guitar.
00:27:05
There's live instruments.
00:27:06
It feels like it's almost like a band, you know?
00:27:08
It's a little fluid Mac.
00:27:09
It's a little Dolly Parton.
00:27:11
It's a little Abba.
00:27:12
It's very much a capital S song.
00:27:15
So in addition to, please, please, please, the nominees in song of the year are a bar song Tipsy, Shibuzy Song, Birds of a Feather, Bailey Eilish, Die with a Smile, That Lady Gaga Bruno Mars duet that we're told exists.
00:27:29
Fortnite by Taylor Swift featuring Post Malone.
00:27:38
Another alleged hit.
00:27:40
Good luck, babe.
00:27:41
By Travel Roan.
00:27:42
Yep.
00:27:43
Not like us by Kendrick Lamar.
00:27:45
They're not like us.
00:27:46
They're not like us.
00:27:47
They're not like us.
00:27:48
I want to note that the only rap song to ever win song of the year is This Is America by Childish Gambino, which is arguably not a rap song,
00:28:00
arguably not a song, right?
00:28:03
So keep that in mind.
00:28:05
And Texas Holden by Beyoncé.
00:28:07
Yeah, okay.
00:28:10
I think Beyoncé is going to win this.
00:28:16
I look, I, it is not my favorite of these candidates, even by the metrics, the measurements of songwriting.
00:28:25
I do think that the Grammy is looking for places to reward Beyoncé.
00:28:30
I think Texas Holden was the lead single from Cowboy Carter.
00:28:33
It's the statement of purpose.
00:28:35
I think that people are going to hear it and say, this is the song where Beyoncé announced a major pivot.
00:28:43
Maybe by the time the Grammy's come along, she'll have announced a tour.
00:28:46
I think she's going to be very on people's minds.
00:28:48
It has been for the last few weeks, especially with the Christmas performance.
00:28:52
I think this was going to go to Beyoncé.
00:28:54
So Beyoncé famously won song of the year once in her career for single ladies put a ring on it.
00:29:02
Never again since then.
00:29:03
I think Beyoncé made a mistake here by not doing the Sabrina Carpenter and splitting the two.
00:29:08
I think 16 carriages belongs in song of the year and I think Texas Holden belongs in record of the year.
00:29:14
If 16 carriages were here, the sort of B side to the introduction to Cowboy Carter, these songs came out together.
00:29:20
I think Beyoncé would win this category as is song of the year, set it before.
00:29:27
It's Billie Eilish.
00:29:29
Billie Eilish won this category not once, but twice.
00:29:38
She won for bad guy from her first album.
00:29:41
She won for woes I made for the Barbie song.
00:29:43
Great song.
00:29:44
It's a ballad.
00:29:45
It's great song.
00:29:46
Our colleague John Parallel, a cheap pop critic of the New York Times, often says this category has to go to a ballad.
00:29:53
Yes.
00:29:54
That basically the most songy song always wins, the most old-fashioned song.
00:30:00
I think Birds of the Feather is the most old-fashioned song in this bunch and I think it is so sturdy, it is so clear as discussed and the Grammys just love this Anjanu so much that I think it's going to be really hard for any of these more,
00:30:16
you know, progressive tracks, compositions to outpace Billie Eilish in this category.
00:30:23
I don't know that I agree, but I can't really argue with what you're saying.
00:30:25
Who should win though?
00:30:27
All right.
00:30:28
I'm going to pull your pick, fresh from the envelope.
00:30:30
I have no idea what you're going to say here.
00:30:33
You could go in many different directions.
00:30:34
I could.
00:30:35
I could.
00:30:38
Good luck, babe.
00:30:39
Chopper on.
00:30:40
I guess it's got to win.
00:30:42
I should have known from you rapsodizing earlier in this episode how strong you feel about this song.
00:30:48
Tell our editors to run it back.
00:30:58
This song is so durable.
00:31:01
This song is going to appeal to the average Grammy voter who's like, "I don't like what the kids are doing."
00:31:06
But I like that chapel alone.
00:31:08
I think you're going to have a bunch of that energy.
00:31:11
And you don't think that could go to Billie.
00:31:13
I think it could.
00:31:14
I just think personally.
00:31:15
You shouldn't.
00:31:16
I think it shouldn't go.
00:31:17
I think it should go to chapel.
00:31:21
Please, please, please, Sabrina Carpenter.
00:31:25
I heard the churren actor, so I'd like to stand up guy with it.
00:31:30
I said the coscarolean.
00:31:31
Yeah, you know, I've been writing for the song since the moment I came out.
00:31:36
This is the music we wish Casey Muscreves was making.
00:31:38
Wow.
00:31:39
Big facts.
00:31:40
It's a song.
00:31:42
It's a song.
00:31:43
It's a song.
00:31:45
It takes such pleasure in its own cleverness and catchiness, it's a key change.
00:31:52
There's just all sorts of little, yeah, little frills.
00:31:56
You say that there's not weird, lyrical moments, but there are.
00:31:59
There are.
00:32:00
Yes, there may be not quite as weird, but yes.
00:32:04
It has mother fucker, which like, you know, that's the song of the year.
00:32:10
It's mother fucker.
00:32:11
The way Sabrina Carpenter and Emil and say mother fucker is the song of the year.
00:32:18
Now record of the year.
00:32:20
This is a weird category, okay.
00:32:23
And it's a weird category because the first nominee, now and then, by the Beatles.
00:32:32
Joe, Joe, we've been sitting here for 30, 40 minutes,
00:32:45
60, I don't know.
00:32:50
We've been sitting here a long time.
00:32:51
And I have somehow managed to do an entire episode of Popcast about the Grammys and I have not once been consumed with rage.
00:33:03
Not once.
00:33:04
This is old school Grammys.
00:33:12
It's not like the Robert Plant Allison Crouse moment in Grammys lore, but I do think recently John Batiste winning album of the year is a miserable night for me.
00:33:25
And for music lovers, dare I say.
00:33:28
Right.
00:33:29
So anyway, the Beatles are nominated for like, it just can I also sidebar for our viewers who are maybe too young to know.
00:33:38
The Beatles were a popular band in the 1960s.
00:33:44
It is worth pointing out, I want to point out the Beatles in their heyday.
00:33:48
They won only four Grammy Awards when active, like they just kept getting washed by Frank Sinatra.
00:33:56
It's good to know that the Grammys have been consistent decade after decade after decade of ignoring pop success.
00:34:01
And the first Beatles album to finally win album in the year was Sergeant Pepper.
00:34:05
It was the first rock and roll album ever.
00:34:07
It was only like, when I say pop used to win, I mean like traditional pop used to win.
00:34:12
Harry Como type beat.
00:34:13
Yeah.
00:34:14
So like the Beatles, could they win this category?
00:34:17
Probably.
00:34:18
Is this a Beatles song?
00:34:20
Absolutely not.
00:34:21
Like, cobbled together using some weird AI technology.
00:34:27
And it's from a demo that John Lennon wrote after they stopped being the Beatles.
00:34:31
All right.
00:34:32
I have to run down the other record.
00:34:33
Go for it.
00:34:34
This is Texas Holden by Beyonce again, espresso by Sabrina Carpenter.
00:34:37
As we mentioned, 360 by Charlie XC X this year.
00:34:40
Yeah.
00:34:41
Yeah.
00:34:42
360.
00:34:45
Big look.
00:34:46
Small song.
00:34:47
Sorry.
00:34:48
Small record.
00:34:49
It's not, notably.
00:34:50
A song.
00:34:51
No, no.
00:34:52
Barely a song.
00:34:53
Birds of a feather by Billie Eilish, not like us by Kendrick Lamar, Good Luck Babe, Chopper own, Fortnite Taylor Swift.
00:35:01
I think they're going to give this one to Chappell.
00:35:02
I'm going to call it on.
00:35:04
Even if you call it on.
00:35:06
I don't sound like someone who calls me.
00:35:09
I think Chappell will win.
00:35:11
Record of the year.
00:35:12
I do.
00:35:13
I've been thinking a lot about big picture narratives and the grammy sense of like tipping the scales correctly and like, where are we going to acknowledge some new talent?
00:35:22
How are we going to properly credit Beyonce?
00:35:24
What are we going to do about Taylor?
00:35:26
How are we going to handle Billie?
00:35:27
But I do think at a certain point they're going to be like, we see the movement is coming.
00:35:33
Chappell, like the train is coming.
00:35:35
Where do we get on?
00:35:36
And I kind of think this is where they get on.
00:35:39
I think Good Luck Babe is going to win record of the year.
00:35:42
I think your should with song is more likely.
00:35:45
I think Chappell, if she's going to be awarded at the highest levels already, sort of maybe prematurely in her journey, I think it's going to be as a songwriter,
00:35:55
not a performer necessarily.
00:35:58
I think this is where not like us by Kendrick Lamar has it's moment.
00:36:02
I see dead people.
00:36:08
A song about the alleged sexual indiscretions of the most famous musician of the last decade is going to be the record of the year at the 2025 Grammys.
00:36:22
Just say it, say it for the clip, say it for the sound bite.
00:36:26
It was the record of the year 2024, whether we like it or not.
00:36:31
Do I think it's going to win song of the year?
00:36:34
A minor?
00:36:35
No.
00:36:36
I don't think the esteemed songwriters of the Grammy Voting Blocks are going to sleep there and reward, say Drake, I heard you like them young.
00:36:46
They're waiting for tweaker to come out next year.
00:36:50
But record, I think the record, not like us, the strings, the bounce, the drums, the vitriol in Kendrick's voice.
00:37:04
I just don't see the Grammys passing without not like us getting its love.
00:37:09
Sure, it's going to win rap song, whatever.
00:37:12
But I also think this is it's big moment.
00:37:15
Will Kendrick be there?
00:37:16
Will he be rehearsing for the Super Bowl, which is one week later?
00:37:19
Right.
00:37:20
I don't know.
00:37:21
But I think there has to be a not like us moment and I think this is where it's going to come.
00:37:25
Should it?
00:37:26
I'm not arguing that necessarily, but I think this is the year in music in one record.
00:37:33
Let's see who you think should win record of the year.
00:37:36
It's Sabrina Carpenter.
00:37:37
It's espresso.
00:37:38
Again, hard to argue with this.
00:37:42
Another cultural moment, if not like us was not your record of 2024, again, I'm not saying people's favorite songs.
00:37:49
I'm saying the defining.
00:37:50
Are you saying that people can't like both not like us on espresso?
00:37:55
But I think if you reveal pop cassettes, but I think if you wanted to argue that another record owned the year in a slightly different way, it would be espresso.
00:38:05
And I think it succeeds as a record does.
00:38:07
It's not.
00:38:08
Is it the greatest songwriting I've ever heard?
00:38:10
No, but it's an undeniable pop confection.
00:38:14
It sounds familiar, but also new.
00:38:16
It introduces a star who was inescapable espresso should be the record of the year.
00:38:22
All right, John, here's what you got.
00:38:26
Here's what you say should win.
00:38:29
Good luck, babe.
00:38:31
You're just all the way.
00:38:37
You're going full, chapel, grand the table.
00:38:41
Here's the thing.
00:38:42
I looked at John, John Caramonica's Grammy Awards, chapel.
00:38:46
I looked at all these Google Docs we were sending around, all these empty slots.
00:38:51
I listened to the songs, I meditated on them, RIP David Lynch, I kept coming back to the fact that no song this year is better made than good luck,
00:39:05
babe.
00:39:06
And I understand that there's some sense about spreading the wealth, there's some sense that maybe she's a little too young or a little too new to the Grammy's party, but these are my votes.
00:39:17
This is who I get to vote for.
00:39:19
This song, Durable AF, should be record of the year.
00:39:22
Let's run through two more categories that I think are pretty interesting.
00:39:25
I'm going to talk about songwriter of the year.
00:39:28
A relatively new category.
00:39:29
Yeah, so this is the third year that the Grammys have awarded songwriter of the year, which is kind of a crazy thing to think about.
00:39:36
It's like, what are the Grammys for?
00:39:37
It's not this.
00:39:38
But I think songwriters are a little bit of the industry's dirty secret and they always have been and it's like you have these massive pop stars.
00:39:47
They want to take credit for songs whether they did or did not write them and put a spotlight on some of these behind the scenes figures.
00:39:56
I think is important for the industry and like way belated that it would take 100 years.
00:40:03
Especially now that we've arrived at a moment where songwriting is so collaborative across like multiple, like you have a track person and you have a melody, a top line person and then a verse person and then maybe the artist shows up.
00:40:14
So it's a strange moment to isolate one individual and say you're the engine but nevertheless it's welcome.
00:40:22
This is mostly what are known in the industry as top liners based on people who write lyrics and melody essentially.
00:40:28
So the nominees in this category, which I think span genre pretty effectively, I actually think this is one of the best spread of nominees of any category.
00:40:37
So you have Jesse Alexander in here for songs by Luke Combs, Megan Maroney, some other country stuff.
00:40:43
You have Amy Allen, one of the big songwriters behind the screen carpenter album, as well as Olivia Rodrigo, Justin Timberlake, Tate McCray.
00:40:54
I spent some time with Amy last year as she was having her breakout moment.
00:40:58
You have Edgar Barreira with songs by Shakira, Becky G, Pesso Pluma, this is the Latin pick in the category.
00:41:05
You have Jesse Joe Dylan who wrote with Morgan Wallen, Post Malone,
00:41:16
Megan Maroney.
00:41:19
Another country ish pick but leaning a little more pop and you have Ray who we mentioned with Best New Artist for songs by herself, Beyonce and Rita Ora.
00:41:31
So imagine how much of a flex it is as a songwriter to submit your package with Rita Ora song and get nominated and still get nominated.
00:41:50
It is a genuinely stacked category and I think one of the things I like is that apart from the two country leaning people, everybody does a distinct thing.
00:41:59
You can sort of parse out the fine points between the two Jesse's, Alexander and Jesse Joe Dylan, but what it seems like the Grammys tried to do here is really identify on a genre level who was a person who was like shifting the narrative in that genre and then reward them.
00:42:13
Yes.
00:42:14
So who will win songwriter of the year at the Grammy Awards?
00:42:16
I think it's your friend Amy Allen.
00:42:19
Please, please, please don't prove I'm right.
00:42:23
I think the songs are too big, they're too powerful, just the Sabrina stuff alone.
00:42:28
Also this is where you're going to have a tiny bit of popularity bias for the Grammys as good as I think Edgar Barrera is I'm not sure that Edgar Barrera has the name recognition to go and win across genre here.
00:42:42
Also as a sidebar, I'm not sure these are the best Edgar Barrera songs, but that's a separate conversation.
00:42:48
To me, it's Amy Allen for the Sabrina stuff.
00:42:50
Amy Allen was nominated in this category two years ago.
00:42:53
The first year it existed.
00:42:55
I think you're totally right.
00:42:56
She's due.
00:42:57
She had the biggest year and she does a very specific thing, which is that she brings singer songwriter vibes to giant pop singles.
00:43:06
So some one of the things we talked about, she and I, it was that she's there to make a song a little weirder, a little more right early, a little more musical.
00:43:15
She's always pushing her big stars, she's worked with Harry Styles, she's worked with Justin Timberlake, she's worked with, you know, Halsey, she's always pushing them a little out of their comfort zone.
00:43:25
And I think that's something the industry wants to reward itself for.
00:43:29
It's a very Linda Perry type energy, yes.
00:43:32
Okay.
00:43:33
Who should win this?
00:43:34
I think we're going to agree again, unfortunately.
00:43:37
I don't know.
00:43:38
Let's, all right.
00:43:39
Are you going to do a left field one for me here?
00:43:41
Why don't you open that envelope and see.
00:43:43
Jesse Joe Dylan.
00:43:44
That is correct.
00:43:46
I lift my boots out by the door like I always do.
00:43:56
Talk me through the Nashville side of things.
00:43:58
So here's the thing about Jesse Joe Dylan.
00:44:01
Look, I look at these Amy Allen songs.
00:44:03
They're indisputable.
00:44:04
I have no quarrel with the Amy Allen songs.
00:44:07
I think that the Megamoroni songs that Jesse, both Jesse's did Megamoroni songs there, that are in the package for nomination.
00:44:16
But the Megamoroni songs that Jesse Joe Dylan worked on to me were emotionally affecting.
00:44:23
They were intimate, they were sometimes a song is so crisply done, it doesn't actually have to be weird to be effective.
00:44:30
And it's again, it's no knock on what Amy Allen does, it's no knock on what anybody in that mode does.
00:44:35
But there is something to be said about just quietly getting down to the work of writing a sad ass country song.
00:44:44
And Megamoroni had a bunch of them.
00:44:46
And Jesse Joe Dylan was the person who really nailed that.
00:44:48
I thought out of these, out of this lineup.
00:44:51
When it comes to voting blocks, Nashville is often known as a town that votes together for its people.
00:44:57
And I do wonder if Amy wins here because of the split vote.
00:45:02
The Jesse's with the Nashville with the Nashville backing split the vote.
00:45:07
You think Amy Allen should win?
00:45:09
I don't have a quarrel with that, Amy Allen would be my second choice for sure.
00:45:13
While we're on the subject of country music that I do think we should run through best country song, another category that I think has its finger on the pulse.
00:45:21
Dare I say this is one of the most revealing line ups in terms of nominees that I think are good nominees and bad nominees.
00:45:29
They're all correct.
00:45:30
It's like the right good nominees and also the right bad nominees.
00:45:34
Take us there.
00:45:35
So the nominees in this category are The Architect by Casey Musgraves.
00:45:39
I don't understand are there blue prints or plans can I speak to the architect.
00:45:48
The brutalist.
00:45:49
You think she could retitle it?
00:45:52
She was fascinating.
00:45:54
A bar song, tipsy by Shabuzy.
00:45:58
One of the biggest smashes of last year, crossed over from country and to pop, you know, it was inescapable,
00:46:08
but is actually based around an interpolation of a rap song from 20 years ago, tipsy by Jayquan.
00:46:21
I do think it's notable here that when it comes to Grammy rules, the writers of songs that are interpolated as opposed to sampled outright, that is songs that are played upon in a melody or a lyric version to pond,
00:46:36
those writers are not eligible for trophies.
00:46:40
So Jayquan, if this wins song of the year or best country song, might get a certificate or something, but he's not going to get, he's not going to get it real.
00:46:48
He'll get our own dying appreciation.
00:46:49
Right.
00:46:50
Well, he already has that.
00:46:51
To be fair.
00:46:52
Jelly rolls, I'm not okay.
00:46:53
I am not okay.
00:46:54
I'm barely getting by.
00:46:55
I'm losing track of days.
00:46:56
I know this is a big song for you.
00:47:04
Okay.
00:47:05
Personally.
00:47:06
Yeah.
00:47:07
Very much though.
00:47:08
Post Malone and Morgan Wallon.
00:47:09
I had some help.
00:47:10
Another number one hit from last year, a pretty seamless duet between two huge stars from two different worlds,
00:47:31
or so we thought, and then Beyoncé, Texas.
00:47:38
Again, here's why this category I find so fascinating.
00:47:41
It has something for everybody.
00:47:43
It has a country music song nominee for people who are like, I don't want to vote for a Nashville song.
00:47:48
It's got the Beyoncé record.
00:47:49
It has someone, it has a song for someone who's like, I wish that they made songs the old way.
00:47:55
It's got this casing muskage song.
00:47:57
It's got someone who says, there's a new Nashville.
00:48:00
I support Morgan Wallon.
00:48:01
I want to make a stand and say it's time to welcome Morgan Wallon back in the fold.
00:48:06
I had some help.
00:48:07
It's got the, I don't mind the face tattoos in Nashville audience.
00:48:11
You have jelly roll.
00:48:12
And then you have Shabuzy for the audience that's basically like, what if Nashville didn't make country songs, but actually made rap songs?
00:48:20
This is actually a genuinely interesting and honest reflection of all the kind of interest groups to say nothing of the fact that you have these kind of ambient discussions over the last few months about Beyoncé's relationship to country music,
00:48:35
the CMA awards, et cetera, et cetera.
00:48:38
Beyoncé was never going to get nominated in the CMA Awards.
00:48:40
That was a thing that was an invention of the chattering classes because Beyoncé doesn't make industry Nashville music, but the Grammys doesn't care about that.
00:48:50
So Beyoncé can get nominated here.
00:48:53
But will she win?
00:48:54
No.
00:48:55
Who's going to win in this category, John?
00:49:00
It brings me no joy to say this.
00:49:03
Casey Musgraves is going to win this award.
00:49:15
This song's bad.
00:49:16
I really don't like this song.
00:49:18
This song, okay.
00:49:19
So, if you are a type of person, such as myself, who bought into the promise of Casey Musgraves eight to ten years ago, one of the things that she did so well was do something that was a little bit challenging to Nashville orthodoxy,
00:49:33
but was so good at the structures could get away with it and actually invite traditionalists along on the ride.
00:49:41
Yeah, her songs were about gay marriage and smoking weed.
00:49:44
And smoking weed.
00:49:45
But they sounded like country songs.
00:49:46
Now, all Nashville songs are about smoking weed and probably not about gay marriage.
00:49:50
But they're about smoking weed.
00:49:53
What is the thing?
00:49:54
This is the type of song that you make when maybe you have given up trying to make genuinely provocative or challenging music.
00:50:03
It's crazy that she is the traditionalist in this category only a couple years later.
00:50:08
Like, basically, Nashville was like, we're getting on a jet and Casey Musgraves is like, I'm a bad guy.
00:50:14
But my bicycle.
00:50:15
Yeah.
00:50:16
And if anything is going backwards, these are songs like, if you ever listen to the really, really old Casey Musgrave stuff from when she was like a teenage country singer, it almost goes back to that type of traditionalism.
00:50:28
It's a snoozer.
00:50:29
I really don't enjoy it.
00:50:31
I think it's going to win.
00:50:32
And it is worth noting that Casey Musgraves is a proven Grammy favorite.
00:50:35
She won the big award album of the year in 2019 with Golden Hour, which was her sort of Beck album.
00:50:42
Yeah.
00:50:43
Yeah.
00:50:44
Psychedelic stuff.
00:50:45
Yeah.
00:50:46
But let's do sheds.
00:50:47
Who do you think should win best country song?
00:50:50
I'm actually curious to see who you think should win.
00:50:56
Okay.
00:50:57
You're a new Nashville king.
00:51:00
Post Malone and Morgan Wall and I had some help.
00:51:12
Why should this one?
00:51:14
This song is both classic and innovative.
00:51:17
Okay.
00:51:18
Shout out Charlie Hanson.
00:51:19
Yeah.
00:51:20
Charlie Hanson, the producer, comes from the world of rap, you know, was making young thug and Travis Scott songs not so long ago and is now a prince of the studio system.
00:51:31
Incredible.
00:51:32
In Nashville.
00:51:33
This song is just a smash.
00:51:34
Like it's, I'm still not sick of it.
00:51:37
I've heard it a million times.
00:51:39
Everyone knows the words.
00:51:40
The duet really works.
00:51:41
I think the way their voices complement one another, it doesn't jolt you, but there's like a little bit more gravel to Morgan Wallin who, you know,
00:51:52
has been through some things.
00:51:54
Both in the music industry and outside of it, you know, he was largely chastised for his use of a racial slur a couple of years ago, been, I would say,
00:52:04
welcomed back.
00:52:06
Yeah, certainly inching his way back towards respectability, but what's a faster word for inching?
00:52:15
Because it's moving very fast.
00:52:16
Yeah, but then also, you know, he just pleaded guilty to throwing a chair off of the roof of a Nashville bar.
00:52:22
So look, I don't think Wallin is going to win because I don't think this is how Nashville wants to represent itself on the world stage.
00:52:30
But I just think as a song, you just can't poke a hole in this one.
00:52:34
Okay.
00:52:35
We're going to win this, Joe.
00:52:37
I hear you about Casey Musgraves, but I think this is Shabuzie's consolation prize.
00:52:42
Really?
00:52:43
I do, because I don't think Shabuzie stands a chance in Best New Artist or Song or Record of the Year, where he's also nominated.
00:52:49
Yeah.
00:52:50
We'll get there.
00:52:51
I think Shabuzie ultimately just a smaller figure in music than Beyonce, Sabrina, Chapel Billy, especially at this moment.
00:53:00
Dare I say he's, you know, hanging out in one hit Wonderland right now, but I think this song is so undeniable and has that clap stomped like it feels Nashville enough.
00:53:11
But here it is referencing a rap song that everybody loves.
00:53:15
I just think this is where Nashville is going to want to see itself as progressive.
00:53:21
And I think this is where it's voters sort of throw something in that direction.
00:53:25
Yes.
00:53:27
You think that in Nashville's long struggle with quote unquote racial reckoning that this is actually the end point that is started in 2020,
00:53:37
the summer of 2020, and it started with Little Nausex.
00:53:41
And what it actually ends with is a Grammy award for Shabuzie for remaking a J-Quan song in a country mode.
00:53:49
All right, John.
00:53:50
Here's your should win Best Country song.
00:53:57
Shabuzie.
00:53:58
I mean, it's hard to argue in the same way you feel about Wallen and Post Malone.
00:54:03
That's how I feel about this song.
00:54:05
I've also felt like I also have heard this song countless times.
00:54:09
I was playing it for my small child yesterday.
00:54:12
That is a strange way to refer to me, but that's okay.
00:54:16
Look, I have been on journeys with this song, the car stereo at the house live, seen Shabuzie perform it live multiple times this year.
00:54:26
I've loved it.
00:54:27
I've hated it.
00:54:28
I've resented it.
00:54:29
I've fallen back in love with it.
00:54:31
What I've landed is Shabuzie figured out a thing that I have been obsessed with.
00:54:38
J-Quan figured out a thing that I personally have been obsessed with for more than a decade, which is a convincing overlap of country in hip-hop.
00:54:49
It took someone who grew up listening to both music, imbibing directly, both styles, started out as a conventional rapper, and then realized actually I need to bring some of that other stuff in to what I do.
00:55:03
And then was lucky enough to be on Cowboy Carter and be given a tiny bit of a nudge out into the world, and then happened to have the exact right song at that exact right moment.
00:55:15
There's no way Shabuzie should not win this one.
00:55:18
Everything you just said also applies to Post-Mom down to the appearance on Cowboy Carter.
00:55:23
We'll be right back.
00:55:28
So we've been talking about these big categories populated by some of the most omnipresent names in music.
00:55:47
But there are smaller categories, genre categories, kind of loaded with music you might actually want to listen to that you haven't heard.
00:55:56
So rap performance, run these category.
00:55:59
So this category has enough Miami by Cardi B.
00:56:03
A song that came in with, but it's fun to listen to.
00:56:07
That song, I'm look, that song definitely came out last year.
00:56:10
Yes, when the sun shines again, common in Pete Rock.
00:56:16
Also came out last year.
00:56:17
Nissan Altima by Do Chi from her mixtape also came out last year.
00:56:23
Who do you think I am?
00:56:36
Like that by future, featuring Kendrick Lamar, Metro Boom and Grotto.
00:56:43
Yeah, Glow by Glowrilla, great record.
00:56:47
Wow.
00:56:48
Incredible.
00:56:49
This would do a little bit if you had got to run up on me, Glowrilla, I bet you'll be going to fly.
00:57:03
Okay.
00:57:04
So this is a rap that was going to win.
00:57:05
Yeah, not like it's a give me the layup, but it should be like that, the actual best song from the Drake and Kendrick beef.
00:57:11
Shall I open your envelope?
00:57:12
Yeah, just gave it away, but I'm going to open yours too.
00:57:15
Hey.
00:57:16
Like that, like that.
00:57:23
It's just big me.
00:57:34
Come on.
00:57:35
It's the obvious one.
00:57:36
Also, I, one of the most haunting things that happened in the whole beef this year was the interview with future in GQ after the fact where he's like, what, I'm not in the big three.
00:57:46
No one's thinking about me, and I was sort of thinking really hard about future, like watching all these people like Binkong against each other and being like, number one, I'm above this, but number two, wait, am I not important enough to diss,
00:57:57
like am I somehow like outside of the thing?
00:58:00
Anyway, the answer is yes, and that's why we love future.
00:58:03
Yes.
00:58:04
So future, a great rapper.
00:58:05
This is a very good song.
00:58:06
It kicked the whole thing off.
00:58:08
It's like that.
00:58:10
Melotic rap, also a weird category this year.
00:58:17
This is another place where Beyoncé appears with Spaghetti, which is co-written by Jay-Z and the Dream very obviously, if you've ever listened to either of their music before.
00:58:28
She calls herself Thanos, which I guess is a Marvel reference.
00:58:34
I don't like it.
00:58:36
I don't like it one bit.
00:58:38
But I know you want to talk about Kewani.
00:58:41
So, okay, 2024, the year of Cascabane, the year of sexy drill, when I was living in England,
00:58:53
two-step garage, speed garage, 97, 98, 99, just incredibly sensual, beautiful, melodic, street records,
00:59:04
2024 sexy drill, I felt was the comeback of that.
00:59:11
And Cascabane was so important to that sound, so it's a bit insane that the song of that style that gets nominated for a Grammy is essentially by a type B-type rapper,
00:59:25
Jordan Tungy, a remix of his song Kalani with Kalani.
00:59:34
I don't necessarily have a quarrel with the song.
00:59:36
It's a little bit like CJ Woopty with it, as far as crossover drill.
00:59:41
But it's very unfortunate that out of anybody getting nominated or any songs to get nominated, it's this one.
00:59:47
Look, it's not going to win, look, it's Timu drill, that said, I don't know, why don't we open what's going to win.
00:59:58
So, what's going to win here, Beyonce's going to win.
01:00:15
You think Beyonce's going to win a rap Grammy?
01:00:17
Yes, Beyonce's going to win, because Beyonce's bigger name than the future, unfortunately.
01:00:23
Also, this future with the weekend song is not one of the better ones, out of all the ones they nominated, definitely not a rap song.
01:00:28
No one's voting for, you know, just speck a lot of our rap city.
01:00:31
That lot of song, big mama, great song.
01:00:41
Nevertheless, two-part beat switch, a really great performance.
01:00:44
Second part better than the first, still.
01:00:47
I think that Beyonce's going to win, because most people are just going to look and see Beyonce and click that.
01:00:51
I do think this is another bell-weather category, which is if the rap voters are team Beyonce, team Beyonce, then I think that bodes well for her in the big categories.
01:01:02
I think if she starts collecting these genre trophies, maybe it's going to be Cowboy Carter's night, then again, Beyonce's won a lot of genre trophies in the past and not a lot of the big four, so I might eat my words.
01:01:13
I think rap city is going to win this.
01:01:15
You make me feel like a virgin, new person, you make me pull back the curse.
01:01:20
This is a very Grammy's, this is a weird, you know, yes, it's just like Crank Band, winning Best New Orleans.
01:01:28
Yes, okay.
01:01:29
Yes, I think it's like it's the most old school it has Eric Abadoo, sort of legacy name.
01:01:36
No, I think, I think, I think rap city could take this trophy.
01:01:40
Here's who you think should win is Ladoo.
01:01:43
I do, I think Ladoo has the best, okay, melodic rap performance in the bunch.
01:01:53
I'm not even sure how melodic that rap performance is, but fine, I'll accept it.
01:01:57
All right, John, here's what you got in your envelope.
01:02:00
Who should win?
01:02:01
Kaylani, it's a huge drill.
01:02:12
As I was arguing against it and listening to it so much, I was like, of the songs, it is the best song.
01:02:18
And that's why I sort of made the comparison to CJ's whoop do, which a lot of people had a problem with when it came out, but clearly was an incredibly effective distillation of that style of drill when it came out.
01:02:29
This is, for better or worse, an effective distillation of this style of drill, even if it's the wrong ambassador for it.
01:02:37
I think we both really like this African music performance category.
01:02:41
Yes.
01:02:42
Really, really good, really good nominees, actual equality songs, radio hits, big personalities, run through the nominees real fast.
01:02:53
We got tomorrow by Yemi Alade, we got MMS by Asha Kay and WizKid, sensational Chris Brown featuring Davido and LoJ, hire by Burnaboy and Love Me,
01:03:04
JJ by Thames.
01:03:05
Look, Burnaboy is going to win this.
01:03:07
Yes.
01:03:08
Burnaboy, the Chris Stapletin, he's the genre representative on a cross-genre stage.
01:03:29
Who should win, though?
01:03:33
Wow.
01:03:34
Asha Kay and WizKid.
01:03:35
What a record.
01:03:46
Incredible song.
01:03:49
Hard to argue, although you've got Thames.
01:03:52
Yeah, to me, the Thames song, like, the thing that Thames has been able to do so effectively is create songs that are true to sort of the origin story of the genre while also having a tremendous crossover appeal.
01:04:12
This is a huge American radio staple that's also incredibly big and faithful to the original style.
01:04:19
It's hard to argue with Thames.
01:04:29
It's interesting that some of these international categories, which is a sort of growing pain zone for the Grammys traditionally, a lot of grouping a lot of stuff that doesn't necessarily belong together, but some of them are really evolving quickly.
01:04:41
The other one, along with African music performance, is the Musica Urbana category, which, again, I think, is like, these are the biggest...
01:04:48
Yeah, I say it's right.
01:04:49
Yeah, these are the correct albums.
01:04:50
You know, you've got Bad Bunny, you've got Jay Balvin, you've got Residente, and then you've got, you know, some upstarts.
01:04:58
So we can, we can talk about who will win this category, but I think we both know it's going to be Bad Bunny.
01:05:03
Bad Bunny is going to win.
01:05:13
It's a no-brainer.
01:05:14
Whether this album is the best Bad Bunny album or not, I would say it's not the best Bad Bunny album.
01:05:20
It's a little bit over long as he himself told us a lot of insider references to like classic reggaeton and Puerto Ricans like, it's not unrivaled in tea, you know, it's not that crossover level.
01:05:32
But it's the Bad Bunny album that came out during the voting window, and it will be rewarded as such.
01:05:36
But who should win this category?
01:05:40
Interesting how we both think who should win is young Miko.
01:05:45
Yes.
01:05:46
Young Miko, young Puerto Rican, rapper, singer, question mark.
01:05:56
She made this album called Attentamento, which is short for Sincerely in Spanish and just a great talent.
01:06:03
I think we both love her music.
01:06:05
We both blown away by her verse on this Bad Bunny album.
01:06:09
Absolutely.
01:06:10
One of the things that's been really striking to see in the wake of Bad Bunny success, I think when Bad Bunny first came out, there was the sense of, oh, he's the singular talent, right?
01:06:19
He can do things that nobody else can do.
01:06:21
He can be a genre ambassador in a way that almost nobody else can.
01:06:24
And then a surprising thing happened, which is 3, 4, 5, 10, 20 young stars took that as a template.
01:06:32
Much as many young stars took Drake as a template, they took Bad Bunny as a template and ran with it.
01:06:37
To me, look, this fade album and also the young Miko album, to me, are both very, very effective representations of that, but the young Miko album,
01:06:47
to me, is the most clever, inventive and unexpected out of this corner.
01:06:53
That's our lightning round.
01:06:55
All the little filigrees of the Gram is this year, we're going to take a break, be back with Alma Deer.
01:07:06
All right, John, here we are.
01:07:13
It's the big one.
01:07:14
It's the Gram is pop cast, it's Alma Deer, huge, huge, been waiting all day to talk about this.
01:07:21
All right, I'm going to run down these nominees, and I want to start with our friend, our friend, Andre 3000,
01:07:32
new blue son.
01:07:36
This is his improvisational, experimental, flute, jazz, ambient album.
01:07:42
Yes.
01:07:43
Not a flute album, he made a point of saying, it features flutes, but it's not a flute album.
01:07:48
We talked with him about it at length, here on Popcast, he performed here in the New York Times office.
01:07:54
Where are we all?
01:07:55
Go watch that on YouTube if you haven't seen it.
01:07:56
Watch that.
01:07:57
You can see it on dot com slash popcast.
01:07:58
This is a pretty weird album to be nominated for Alma Deer, but it's also by Andre 3000.
01:08:03
So we have talked a lot about Grammy favorites, right?
01:08:07
We've talked about Billy Eilish as a Grammy favorite, we've talked about kissing muskraves as a Grammy favorite.
01:08:13
Andre 3000 is a Grammy favorite who has just been missing more or less from the conversation for the bulk of the last two decades.
01:08:21
Andre 3000 is part of Outcast, one album of the year, one of only two rap albums to ever win, and so Andre's comeback narrative, which is I walked and wandered through the world playing woodwind instruments,
01:08:37
teaching myself how to play, studying at the feet of masters, but also kind of purposefully toying with amateurism.
01:08:47
That said, I also found an incredibly talented supporting band to help bolster up the parts of the musical proposition that maybe I'm still finding my footing in.
01:08:58
Andre put out, I would say, less an album than a statement of purpose.
01:09:03
And from a narrative perspective, I can see that being incredibly appealing to Grammy first.
01:09:09
Is this the real music pick?
01:09:10
That's exactly it.
01:09:11
See, to me, the things that grant the thing that Grammy voters always struggle with is, are they really playing?
01:09:17
What are they good at?
01:09:19
This is, you can look at all these other albums and point to instances of quote unquote real music, but this is the most hand-played album of the bunch.
01:09:29
And if you're a voter that tilts in that direction, and maybe you heard, hey, y'all, once in your life, this might be where you throw your vote.
01:09:36
I do think it's notable that much like Beyonce, Andre's also spread out through some genre categories.
01:09:42
Yes.
01:09:43
And he's doing a little bit of, you know, polite, big footing.
01:09:46
Yes.
01:09:47
Where he's saying, I might be the only person here with household name recognition.
01:09:53
Am I bringing light to this obscure experimental jazz category?
01:09:58
Or am I taking it for myself?
01:10:00
And I think it's going to be interesting to see how the voters respond to something like that.
01:10:06
I think the less said about the next nominee, the better.
01:10:08
And I think if there's any justice in the world, voters will feel the same way.
01:10:13
This is Jacob Collier.
01:10:23
This is Jesse Volume 4.
01:10:27
These are the audio picking up me doing this, shrugging, just like throwing my hands up.
01:10:34
Jacob Collier, a one-time protégé of Quincy Jones, who passed away this past year, I can see a big moment for James Collier on the stage, maybe as part of a tribute to Quincy, maybe there are some residual votes being thrown in,
01:10:46
also a quote-unquote real musician.
01:10:48
But as song craft, I do not find this music compelling and I wish that it would not win.
01:10:56
But this is the John Batista of this year.
01:10:59
So if the night ends with everyone saying who's Jacob Collier, I'm sure you'll have no shortage of explainers to read on Monday morning from across the internet.
01:11:08
We're incredible.
01:11:09
All right.
01:11:10
We've been talking about these two all episode.
01:11:11
Let's shuffle around.
01:11:12
It's Sabrina Carpenter.
01:11:13
It's short and sweet.
01:11:14
It's the rise and fall of a Midwest princess.
01:11:17
These two albums, you know how we feel about them.
01:11:20
I think they've earned their place here, but we don't need to talk about them again.
01:11:24
These are our new pop stars.
01:11:25
Yes.
01:11:26
Charlie XCX, Brat, same thing.
01:11:29
Big cultural moment last year.
01:11:32
Dare I say, if Kamala wins the election, this wins out of the year.
01:11:36
At least has a chance.
01:11:38
Yeah.
01:11:39
But.
01:11:40
It's a little burst.
01:11:42
Yes.
01:11:43
After Kamala took Kamala is Brat, a Charlie XCX, tweet made it part of the campaign.
01:11:49
No one's feeling that Brat.
01:11:50
Brat.
01:11:51
At this second, I don't think.
01:11:52
Cast.
01:11:53
I don't think this pick is going anywhere, but imagine the internet rejoicing.
01:11:57
I just donated all my neon green clothing.
01:12:00
What am I going to do if this happens?
01:12:02
Billy Eilish hit me hard and soft.
01:12:04
We went over this.
01:12:05
Yep.
01:12:06
Mm-hmm.
01:12:07
Definitely has a chance.
01:12:08
Sure.
01:12:09
Taylor Swift, the tortured poets department.
01:12:12
Can you imagine?
01:12:14
No.
01:12:15
If Taylor wins, again, she's already the only person in all of history to win album of the year four times, most recently, with men nights last year.
01:12:24
Is she also the only person to win album of the year and not apologize to Beyonce for winning album of the year?
01:12:29
Yes.
01:12:31
Might be an interesting year if that happens.
01:12:34
Because.
01:12:35
What's our last nominee?
01:12:36
It's Beyonce.
01:12:37
It's Cowboy Carter.
01:12:39
Will she, won't she, will they do right by Beyonce?
01:12:43
More crucially, is awarding Cowboy Carter doing right by Beyonce.
01:12:48
So there's a two separate questions, right?
01:12:51
Of all Beyonce albums, is Cowboy Carter the most meritorious of an album of the year?
01:12:59
Victory.
01:13:00
Absolutely not.
01:13:01
I would argue that it is the worst Beyonce album.
01:13:04
Okay.
01:13:05
I don't know if it's the worst Beyonce album, but I don't think it's the best Beyonce album.
01:13:08
I would rather see lemonade here.
01:13:11
I would rather see four here, like Renaissance, of course, as far as I go.
01:13:15
Yeah.
01:13:17
To me, there are too many converging narratives, Beyonce getting shut out of album of the year, time and time again, black performers in country music,
01:13:29
taking center stage this year, maybe a tiny bit of Taylor fatigue.
01:13:36
There are a lot of things going on this year, and I kind of think they're going to give it to Beyonce.
01:13:42
You think Beyonce will win album of the year?
01:13:44
My will win.
01:13:45
Put it down.
01:13:46
Beyonce will win album of the year.
01:13:49
And you want to talk about endless thing pieces, the thing pieces of Monday morning are to be going dummy.
01:13:56
If she wins album of the year, it is a lifetime achievement award.
01:14:00
It is Martin Scorsese, you winning for the department, it's Al Pacino, winning percent of a woman.
01:14:07
I think she overplayed her hand by cowboy Carter.
01:14:09
I think if the Grammy voters were not going to respond to the Beyonce albums that were lemonade and even Renaissance, which, yeah,
01:14:19
I'm not a huge fan of, I just want to say, all of these albums amaculately made, like it's Beyonce.
01:14:25
The bar is the ceiling, like she's executing at a certain level.
01:14:30
But all of the heavy handedness of cowboy Carter that I think in many ways is meant to convince the voters that haven't.
01:14:38
I don't know if it doesn't push them away a little bit further.
01:14:41
There's literally a song on this album that begins with Linda Martell saying, "Genres are a funny little concept, aren't they?"
01:14:50
Eventually, explaining what genre is and how it's a tricky thing.
01:15:02
It's too much, although the thing that I would say, and this came up when, in our critics year and round table, we were talking about who cowboy Carter is for.
01:15:09
And cowboy Carter is an album, it's a great Beyonce album, I don't know if it's the best, it's a great Beyonce album.
01:15:15
But it's an album for people who historically would not take one look at a country album in the Almanair category and say I'm going to vote for that, and it's going to allow them to feel open-minded and say,
01:15:25
"Hey, I can support other kinds of music, especially if it's made by someone like Beyonce."
01:15:31
It's actually the outsider nominee and the insider nominee all at the same time.
01:15:37
I think it checks a lot of boxes, and I think there's a lot of storylines that end incredibly neatly with a Beyonce victory.
01:15:56
If Beyonce comes away with the big trophy at the end of Sunday night, I think what will have done it is that NFL halftime performance on Christmas Day on Netflix.
01:16:05
Ratings were bonkers, performance was flawless.
01:16:08
It's what made the album hang together for me.
01:16:12
I don't like that she covered Blackbird by the Beatles as the second track on the album.
01:16:15
I don't like that she flipped the meaning of Joleen for her cover, like none of that works for me when I'm listening to the album in front to back, but on stage, Beyonce can sell anything.
01:16:26
Yeah.
01:16:27
And she was so good in that cowboy carter medley, it was the first time she performed these songs.
01:16:33
I think even skeptics went into that, like myself, and could have come away saying, "All right, fine.
01:16:40
Here's the vote."
01:16:41
What I'm going to say is that when Beyonce goes on tour, we're going to Nashville and we're going to walk up and down lower Broadway,
01:16:53
night at the show.
01:16:54
It's going to be a wild night.
01:16:57
That said, who's going to win?
01:16:58
I think Billie Eilish is going to win again.
01:17:00
I really do.
01:17:01
I think this is a race between Grammy favorites.
01:17:23
I think you can try and change the Grammys over and over again.
01:17:26
I think this is a race between Billie and Taylor, and I think the Taylor fatigue is going to lead to Billie votes.
01:17:33
I think this is the best Billie Eilish album.
01:17:35
I think it is the tightest statement of purpose.
01:17:38
I think it's the most album of these albums.
01:17:41
And I think these people love her, and I think they'll continue to reward her.
01:17:46
Look, Chapel could have been this pick.
01:17:49
That album is simply too messy.
01:17:52
It's all over the place.
01:17:53
Are you sure?
01:17:54
Okay.
01:17:55
Imagine why don't you open that on, below.
01:17:58
Why don't you open that off, below?
01:18:00
I want to make my, I know you think Chapel Roan should win this category.
01:18:03
I don't even have to look at the card.
01:18:05
Fine.
01:18:06
Rise and fall in Midwest Princess.
01:18:15
I'm trying to imagine somebody who's never heard Chapel Roan before.
01:18:19
They go on the little Grammy website.
01:18:21
I don't even know how to, how you listen to music on there.
01:18:23
I don't, you know, let us know.
01:18:25
Grammy voters.
01:18:26
Show us.
01:18:27
Show us.
01:18:28
Show us.
01:18:29
Show us.
01:18:30
Feminominomin.
01:18:31
Feminominomin.
01:18:32
Leave that in.
01:18:33
Feminominomin.
01:18:35
Feminomin.
01:18:36
It's like the whiplash is crazy.
01:18:39
The lyrics are bonkers.
01:18:41
Like, this album is not the best of Chapel Roan.
01:18:44
Live is the best of Chapel Roan.
01:18:46
Good luck, babe is the best of Chapel Roan.
01:18:48
The next Chapel Roan album will win album of the year at the Grammys.
01:18:51
If she keeps on this path, not this one.
01:18:55
Can I just say the word?
01:18:56
No, sure.
01:18:57
You voters, click on whatever the website is and hear Feminominon.
01:19:02
That's how you pronounce it.
01:19:03
They're going to say, it's crazy.
01:19:05
It's bonkers.
01:19:06
Everything you just said, but with a thumbs up, not a head scratch.
01:19:10
To me, Chapel Roan has the album of the year.
01:19:14
And part of the reason the Chapel Roan has the album of the year is because of that mess.
01:19:18
One of the things that we were talking about all throughout 2024 is what's the evolution post Taylor Swift and Taylor Acolytes and certainly post Olivia Rodrigo in terms of what mainstream pop is moving towards.
01:19:31
What it's moving towards is productive chaos.
01:19:34
What it's moving towards are edges that are not sandpapered down.
01:19:40
By that metric, Chapel Roan's album is the best of the year.
01:19:44
Or it's what I picked as my should win.
01:19:51
Horton Sweet by Sabrina Carpenter.
01:19:53
Joe, do you get points on this record?
01:19:57
I wish it is so good.
01:19:59
It is so good.
01:20:00
It is held up so well.
01:20:01
It is pop music in 2024.
01:20:03
It's pop better.
01:20:04
It's like, this is what we want.
01:20:06
This album is not going to win because it's too glossy, it's too poppy.
01:20:10
She's a child star.
01:20:11
She came out of TV.
01:20:12
She came out of TV.
01:20:13
It's not.
01:20:14
It's not going to win because it's not how the industry wants to see itself, but it's how the industry should see itself, which is you work hard enough, you write enough good songs.
01:20:23
You just keep at it.
01:20:24
You keep at it.
01:20:25
You keep at it on your 6th album.
01:20:26
You worked with Jack Antonov.
01:20:27
On your 6th album, you're going to perfect it.
01:20:29
And Horton Sweet is a tight, perfect little pop album.
01:20:34
And I wish it would win album of the year.
01:20:36
I guess what I know is when it comes to best new podcast, pop cast is absolutely going to win at this Grammy's and at all other awards show.
01:20:44
That's our episode.
01:20:46
We're going to do a post game with the whole pop team.
01:20:49
We'll catch up.
01:20:50
We'll see who was right.
01:20:51
Who was wrong.
01:20:53
Check in with us every episode ever at popcasts@nytimes.com/popcasts.
01:20:57
Catch us at youtube.com/popcasts.
01:21:00
Subscribe anywhere you get your audio content, Instagram and TikTok at popcasts.
01:21:04
Deluxe.
01:21:05
We'll be back after the awards.
01:21:09
It's a very big episode of popcasts made by a very big team.
01:21:19
Let me tell you about them.
01:21:20
On the audio side, John White is our audio producer.
01:21:24
Brendan Klinginger murders our editor, Daniel Ramirez is our engineer.
01:21:28
And our executive producer is Jennifer Poient.
01:21:31
Over on the video side, check us on YouTube.
01:21:34
Our video editors are Eddie Costas, Sawyer Rokay and Pat Gunther, cinematographies by Dave Mayer's and Eddie Costas, our senior producer.
01:21:43
That's Sophie Erickson, our executive producer, of course, is Brooke Mentors.
01:21:48
And everybody working in the background doing big things.
01:21:51
Here are our special thanks, no globally, Mahima Shabbani, Michael Cordero, Craig Editch, Maddie Masiello, Amanda Webster, Lindsey Flood, Pedro Rosado,
01:22:02
Karen Gans, Sia Michael, Nina Lawson, Brad Kimbro, Katarina Clarice, Andrew Wilcox, Salonapine, Paula Schumann and Sam Dolneck.
01:22:12
Big team for a big episode.
01:22:14
See you next week.
01:22:15
[MUSIC]
01:22:25
