Digest

This podcast episode features a conversation with Francis Ngannou, a former UFC Heavyweight Champion, who discusses his transition to boxing, his experiences in the Professional Fighters League (PFL), and the profound impact of losing his son, Kobe. Ngannou begins by detailing his journey to boxing, highlighting his fight against Tyson Fury and the challenges he faced in adapting to the sport. He explains his decision to fight Fury in the southpaw stance and the unique mental pressures of boxing compared to MMA. He also discusses his training for both the Fury and Anthony Joshua fights, revealing his approach to preparation and the lessons he learned from each experience. The conversation then shifts to Ngannou's involvement in the PFL, where he expresses his dislike for the promotion's point system and win bonuses. He also discusses the rise of Ciryl Gane and the PFL's acquisition of Bellator, highlighting the growing influence of the organization in the MMA world. Ngannou's passion for developing MMA in Africa is evident as he details his involvement in the PFL Africa initiative and his desire to create opportunities for young fighters in his home continent. The episode takes a deeply personal turn as Ngannou shares the story of losing his son, Kobe, at 15 months old. He describes the profound grief and sadness he felt, the circumstances surrounding Kobe's death, and the lasting impact the loss has had on his life. Ngannou reflects on the importance of cherishing the present moment, the powerlessness of loss, and the strength he found in honoring Kobe's memory by living a purposeful life. Throughout the conversation, Ngannou demonstrates his resilience, his passion for combat sports, and his commitment to making a difference in the world. He offers insights into the challenges and rewards of fighting, the importance of mental fortitude, and the power of human connection.

Outlines

00:00:10

Francis Ngannou's Journey to Boxing and the Tyson Fury Fight

Francis Ngannou discusses his journey to boxing, highlighting his Tyson Fury fight and the challenges he faced. He emphasizes the importance of not underestimating opponents and the unique aspects of boxing compared to MMA.

00:03:49

The Southpaw Strategy and its Impact on the Fury Fight

Ngannou explains his decision to fight Tyson Fury in the southpaw stance, revealing how it affected Fury's strategy and allowed him to take breaks during the fight.

00:04:36

The Differences Between MMA and Boxing

Ngannou compares the experience of fighting in a boxing ring to fighting in an MMA cage, highlighting the different environment, organization, and mental challenges.

00:06:59

Preparation for the Tyson Fury Fight

Ngannou discusses his training for the Tyson Fury fight, revealing that he didn't engage in any mock fights or extended sparring sessions to replicate a professional boxing match.

00:08:00

The Anthony Joshua Fight Preparation and Increased Confidence

Ngannou details his preparation for the Anthony Joshua fight, emphasizing the increased confidence he gained after the Tyson Fury fight and the challenges he faced during fight week.

00:18:54

The Anthony Joshua Fight: A Different Experience

Ngannou recounts his experience during the Anthony Joshua fight, describing the feeling of being knocked down in the first round and the confusion he felt. He also expresses his belief that something might have been wrong during the fight.

00:27:26

The Importance of Experience in Boxing

Ngannou discusses the importance of experience in boxing, highlighting how experienced professionals can manipulate fighters to their advantage through tactics like dehydration and psychological games.

00:29:49

Reflecting on the Anthony Joshua Fight

Ngannou reflects on the Anthony Joshua fight, stating that he believes he did everything right in preparation and that he can't pinpoint any specific mistakes.

00:31:06

The Big Fight Mentality and Financial Rewards

Ngannou explains his decision to focus on big fights rather than building experience through lower-level opponents, emphasizing his desire for high-stakes matches and the financial rewards they offer.

00:32:59

Future Plans and the PFL

Ngannou discusses his future plans, revealing that he intends to have a few more boxing fights and MMA fights, including a potential fight against Renan Ferreira in the PFL.

00:36:12

Criticism of the PFL's Point System and Win Bonuses

Ngannou expresses his dislike for the PFL's point system and win bonuses, arguing that it's unfair to fighters who don't get finishes and that it doesn't benefit anyone involved.

00:37:00

The Rise of Ciryl Gane and Referee Controversy

Ngannou discusses Ciryl Gane's rise in the PFL, highlighting his impressive striking skills, cardio, and work ethic. He also criticizes the referee's decision to stop Gane's fight due to a piece of glass in the cage.

00:48:24

The Importance of Fighter Pay and Fair Compensation

Ngannou argues that fighters should receive their full pay regardless of whether they win or lose, emphasizing the limited number of fights elite fighters have in their careers and the risks they take.

00:51:26

The PFL's Acquisition of Bellator and Saudi Investment

Ngannou discusses the PFL's acquisition of Bellator, revealing that the Saudis have invested in the PFL and that he is part of the PFL Africa initiative.

00:52:50

The PFL Africa Initiative and its Goals

Ngannou explains his involvement in the PFL Africa initiative, highlighting his desire to contribute to the development of MMA in Africa and the opportunities it provides.

00:53:30

Avoiding Drama and Leaving the UFC

Ngannou discusses his desire to avoid drama in his career, explaining why he left the UFC and his preference for a peaceful environment.

00:54:22

Retirement Plans and Future Fights

Ngannou discusses his retirement plans, aiming to leave the sport before the sport leaves him. He remains open to both boxing and MMA fights in the future, but emphasizes his desire to stay passionate about the sport.

00:59:53

The Uniqueness of Boxing and Mental Challenges

Ngannou explains why boxing is a unique challenge for him, highlighting the different muscle memory and functionality required compared to MMA. He also discusses the mental aspect of learning a new sport and the constant questioning of his abilities.

01:01:07

Training for Boxing and the Importance of Amateur Style

Ngannou discusses his boxing training team, including Dewey Cooper, Eric Mixick, and John Bumba, and the importance of amateurist style in his development.

01:01:42

The Importance of Underrated Fighters and Recognizing Talent

Ngannou argues that underrated fighters often have the potential to be elite, highlighting the example of Andy Ruiz Jr. and the importance of recognizing talent beyond name recognition.

01:03:22

Living the Dream and Embracing the Unexpected

Ngannou reflects on his journey, expressing his gratitude for the opportunities he has had and his belief that he is living his dream. He emphasizes the importance of making the best of every situation and embracing the unexpected.

01:04:40

Francis Ngannou's Incredible Journey and Overcoming Adversity

The conversation begins with a discussion of Francis Ngannou's remarkable journey to success in MMA, highlighting his struggles and perseverance. The speaker emphasizes the inspiring nature of his story and the human spirit it embodies.

01:06:46

Ngannou's Blessings and Opportunity to Give Back

Ngannou reflects on his blessings and the opportunities he has been given, particularly his ability to give back to his community in Africa. He discusses his dream of creating a platform for African fighters to succeed without facing the same hardships he endured.

01:09:23

The PFL Africa Initiative and its Impact on African MMA

Ngannou details his plans for the PFL Africa initiative, which includes establishing gyms in Cameroon and other African countries to nurture talent and provide a structured path for fighters. He emphasizes the importance of building a strong ecosystem for the sport in Africa.

01:11:54

The MMA Scene in Africa and Potential for Growth

Ngannou discusses the current MMA scene in Africa, highlighting the presence of local promotions and the abundance of talented fighters. He believes that PFL Africa will provide a platform for these fighters to showcase their skills and potentially reach the global stage.

01:16:07

Ngannou's Post-Fighting Plans and Leadership Role in African MMA

Ngannou shares his aspirations for life after fighting, expressing his desire to contribute to the growth of MMA in Africa. He envisions a role in executive leadership, working to address the challenges and opportunities within the sport in the continent.

01:18:47

Ngannou as an Inspiration to Young Fighters

The speaker emphasizes the inspirational nature of Ngannou's career, highlighting his accomplishments and the message of hope he provides to young fighters. He believes that Ngannou's story makes success more accessible, particularly for those from similar backgrounds.

01:20:13

Ngannou's Foundation and its Impact on Empowering Youth

Ngannou discusses the purpose of his foundation, which aims to motivate and empower young people in Africa. He believes that fostering self-belief and confidence is crucial for success in any field, not just fighting.

01:23:15

Ngannou's Passion for Filmmaking and Empowering Youth

Ngannou shares his passion for filmmaking and his desire to create opportunities for young people in his village to learn about camera operation and production. He believes that access to quality equipment can empower talented individuals to create impactful content.

01:24:40

The Importance of Opportunity and the Rise of African MMA

The conversation shifts to the importance of opportunity and how Ngannou's success has opened doors for other African fighters. The speaker draws parallels to the rise of Brazilian MMA, highlighting the impact of pioneers like Royce Gracie.

01:25:43

The Power of Inspiration and Ngannou's Impact on Others

The speaker emphasizes the significance of Ngannou's role as an inspiration to others, particularly young people who see his journey as a testament to the possibility of achieving their dreams. He reflects on the unique impact Ngannou has on people's lives.

01:26:59

The Challenges of Information in the Digital Age

The conversation explores the challenges of navigating the vast amount of information available in the digital age, particularly for young people. The speaker highlights the importance of filtering information and recognizing the difference between valuable content and misinformation.

01:28:24

Laziness, Discipline, and Success in Life

The conversation delves into the concepts of laziness, discipline, and their impact on success. The speaker argues that while laziness can sometimes lead to innovation, true success often requires hard work and dedication. He also discusses the tendency for some individuals to avoid work by pursuing further education.

01:34:33

The Role of Discipline in Fighting and Achieving Success

The conversation returns to the world of fighting, emphasizing the importance of discipline in achieving success. The speaker argues that while talent is important, it is often discipline that separates champions from those who fall short. He highlights the dangers of relying solely on talent and the importance of consistent effort.

01:39:01

The Difference Between Gym Stars and Real Fighters

The conversation explores the difference between fighters who excel in the gym and those who can perform under pressure in real fights. The speaker discusses the importance of mental fortitude and the ability to manage stress in high-stakes situations. He acknowledges that some fighters struggle to translate their gym success to the professional arena.

01:40:16

The Importance of Training with Purpose and Addressing Weaknesses

The conversation focuses on the importance of training with purpose and the need to address weaknesses in order to improve. The speaker highlights the difference between fighters who train to learn and grow and those who focus solely on showcasing their strengths. He emphasizes the importance of a healthy ego and the willingness to work on areas of weakness.

01:41:59

The Importance of Tapping in Training and Preventing Injuries

The conversation discusses the importance of tapping in training, particularly in grappling disciplines like jujitsu. The speaker emphasizes that tapping is a crucial safety measure that prevents injuries and allows for learning and improvement. He criticizes the mentality of avoiding taps in training, highlighting the potential for serious harm.

01:44:09

Ngannou's Perspective on Jujitsu and Risk of Injury

Ngannou expresses his reluctance to compete in jujitsu due to the risk of injury to his knees and ankles. He shares a story about a horrific heel hook injury he witnessed, highlighting the potential for serious damage in grappling.

01:46:21

The Mental Impact of Serious Injuries and Recovery

The conversation shifts to the mental impact of serious injuries, particularly those that involve broken bones. The speaker emphasizes the difficulty of recovering from such injuries, both physically and mentally. He discusses the importance of mental rehabilitation and the challenges of regaining trust in the injured limb.

01:47:25

Ngannou's Mental Recovery from the Stipe Miocic Fight

Ngannou reflects on his mental recovery from his fight against Stipe Miocic, acknowledging the lingering effects of the previous fight and the mental challenges of staying focused in the moment. He describes the experience of feeling like he was still fighting Miocic even after the fight was over.

01:49:05

Ngannou's Approach to Mental Health and Independent Coping

Ngannou discusses his approach to mental health, revealing that he prefers to work through his challenges independently rather than seeking professional help. He attributes this to his upbringing and his tendency to spend time alone, reflecting on his thoughts and feelings.

01:50:06

The Dangers of an Entourage and Maintaining Independence

The speaker highlights the potential dangers of having an entourage, particularly for successful individuals who may be surrounded by yes-men. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining independence and avoiding being influenced by those who may not have your best interests at heart.

01:50:59

Ngannou's Preference for Solitude and Self-Reflection

Ngannou expresses his preference for solitude, explaining that he enjoys spending time alone and reflecting on his thoughts and feelings. He believes that this independence allows him to control his own happiness and well-being.

01:51:40

The Impact of Grief and Loss on Ngannou's Life

Ngannou shares his experience of losing his son, Kobe, at 15 months old. He describes the profound grief and sadness he felt and how he coped with the loss by forcing himself to get out of the house and engage in activities that distracted him from his pain.

01:52:47

The Circumstances of Kobe's Death and Brain Malformation

Ngannou explains the circumstances surrounding Kobe's death, revealing that he suffered from a brain malformation that was not initially diagnosed. He describes the confusion and uncertainty surrounding the situation and the emotional toll it took on him.

01:54:53

The Sudden Loss of Kobe and the Shock of the News

Ngannou recounts the moment he received the news of Kobe's death, describing the shock and disbelief he felt. He shares the emotional impact of the loss and how it changed his perspective on life.

01:57:25

The Uniqueness of Grief and Individual Reactions to Loss

Ngannou reflects on the unique nature of grief and the difficulty of predicting how someone will react to loss. He shares his own experience of not crying immediately, attributing it to a sense of numbness and disbelief.

01:58:29

The Impact of Kobe's Death on Ngannou's Perspective on Life

Ngannou discusses how Kobe's death changed his perspective on life, making him realize the importance of cherishing the present moment and the fragility of life. He reflects on the things he used to worry about and how they now seem insignificant in comparison to the loss of his son.

01:59:17

Ngannou's Drive to Protect His Family and Fear of Loss

Ngannou shares how the loss of his father at a young age instilled in him a strong desire to protect his family. He describes the fear he felt about the possibility of losing his mother or his own children and how this fear motivated him to work hard and provide for them.

02:00:47

The Powerlessness of Loss and the Pain of Not Being Able to Help

Ngannou reflects on the feeling of powerlessness he experienced after Kobe's death, acknowledging that he could not do anything to save his son. He describes the pain of knowing that he could not fight for him or prevent his loss.

02:01:46

The Mystery of Kobe's Death and the Search for Answers

Ngannou discusses the mystery surrounding Kobe's death and the ongoing search for answers. He mentions the autopsy and the hope that it will provide some clarity and potentially help others in the future.

02:02:51

Ngannou's Last Moments with Kobe and Regret

Ngannou shares his last moments with Kobe, describing the bond they shared and how Kobe would often cry when he left the room. He expresses regret for not spending more time with him and the feeling that he should have gone back to see him one more time.

02:04:42

The Lasting Impact of Kobe's Loss and the Pain of Seeing His Belongings

Ngannou describes the emotional impact of seeing Kobe's toys and belongings after his death, knowing that he would never be able to play with them again. He shares the pain of realizing that Kobe would never be there anymore.

02:05:09

The Inspiration Behind Kobe's Name and Meeting Kobe Bryant

Ngannou explains the origin of Kobe's name, revealing that he named his son after Kobe Bryant. He shares a story about meeting Kobe Bryant in New York and being impressed by his intelligence and curiosity.

02:06:53

Ngannou's Decision to Honor Kobe's Memory and Live a Purposeful Life

Ngannou describes the emotional impact of Kobe's death and his decision to honor his memory by living a purposeful life. He believes that Kobe would have wanted him to continue pursuing his dreams and making a difference in the world.

02:08:08

The Transformation of Kobe from Child to Project and the Suddenness of His Death

Ngannou reflects on how Kobe transformed from a child into a project in his mind, as he started to plan for his future and envision ways to protect him. He describes the suddenness of Kobe's death and the feeling that his life was cut short before he had a chance to experience all that life had to offer.

02:09:07

The Importance of Empathy and Respect for Those Who Have Experienced Loss

Ngannou discusses the importance of empathy and respect for those who have experienced loss, particularly the loss of a child. He shares his own experience of not fully understanding the depth of his brother's grief until he lost his own son.

02:09:56

Ngannou's Realization of His Own Strength and the Challenges of Grief

Ngannou reflects on the challenges of grief and the realization that he is not as tough as he thought he was. He acknowledges that there is no comfort that can truly alleviate the pain of loss and that the process of healing is a daily journey.

02:10:49

Ngannou's Perspective on Life After Loss and Finding Solace

Ngannou shares his perspective on life after loss, describing the feeling of emptiness and the realization that nothing else seems to matter. He acknowledges that he still loves life and wants to live, but he also finds solace in the thought of seeing Kobe again someday.

02:12:03

Ngannou's Commitment to Honoring Kobe's Memory and Creating Opportunities

Ngannou expresses his commitment to honoring Kobe's memory by living a purposeful life. He believes that Kobe would have wanted him to continue pursuing his dreams and making a difference in the world. He sees his work with PFL Africa as a way to honor Kobe's spirit and create opportunities for others.

Keywords

Q&A

• What was Francis Ngannou's strategy for fighting Tyson Fury in the southpaw stance?

  Ngannou decided to fight Fury in the southpaw stance because he believed it would be a good strategy against Fury's style. He found that Fury was more hesitant when Ngannou switched to southpaw, allowing him to take breaks during the fight.

• What are the key differences between fighting in a boxing ring and an MMA cage?

  Ngannou highlights the different environment, organization, and mental challenges of boxing compared to MMA. The spotlight is different, the ring feels different, and the lack of wrestling and grappling options in boxing creates a unique mental pressure.

• Why did Francis Ngannou choose to focus on big fights rather than building experience through lower-level opponents?

  Ngannou explains that he is not a young fighter with a long-term plan to climb the rankings. He is more interested in high-stakes matches that offer significant financial rewards and the opportunity to prove himself against the best.

• What are Francis Ngannou's future plans for boxing and MMA?

  Ngannou intends to have a few more boxing fights and MMA fights, including a potential fight against Renan Ferreira in the PFL. He is open to opportunities in both sports but remains focused on his passion for combat sports.

• What are Francis Ngannou's thoughts on the PFL's point system and win bonuses?

  Ngannou strongly dislikes the PFL's point system and win bonuses, arguing that it's unfair to fighters who don't get finishes and that it doesn't benefit anyone involved. He prefers the traditional boxing setup where fighters are paid a fixed amount regardless of the outcome.

• What are Francis Ngannou's thoughts on Ciryl Gane's rise in the PFL?

  Ngannou is impressed by Gane's striking skills, cardio, and work ethic. He believes Gane has the potential to be a top fighter and criticizes the referee's decision to stop Gane's fight due to a piece of glass in the cage.

• Why does Francis Ngannou believe fighters should receive their full pay regardless of whether they win or lose?

  Ngannou argues that fighters have limited careers and take significant risks in the ring. He believes that they deserve to be compensated fairly for their efforts, regardless of the outcome of the fight.

• What is Francis Ngannou's involvement in the PFL Africa initiative?

  Ngannou is a key part of the PFL Africa initiative, which aims to develop MMA in Africa. He sees this as an opportunity to give back to the sport and contribute to its growth in his home continent.

• Why did Francis Ngannou leave the UFC?

  Ngannou left the UFC because he was seeking a more peaceful environment and wanted to avoid the drama that often surrounds the promotion. He believes that he has reached a point in his career where he wants to focus on his passion for the sport without the distractions of conflict.

• How did the loss of his son, Kobe, impact Francis Ngannou's perspective on life?

  The loss of Kobe deeply impacted Ngannou's perspective on life, making him realize the fragility of life and the importance of cherishing the present moment. It also instilled in him a stronger desire to protect his family and live a purposeful life.

Show Notes