“We humans need to be the ones who work with algorithms to make sure that they don’t take the wrong path, don’t deteriorate, don’t misunderstand our intentions, and don’t create outcomes that we don’t want.”

– Marek Kowalkiewicz

About Marek Kowalkiewicz

Professor Marek Kowalkiewicz is founding director of the Centre for the Digital Economy at Queensland University of Technology, where he leads a portfolio of research projects into AI and the digital economy. He was recently named in the Top 100 Global Thought Leaders in AI by thinkers360. Marek’s new book, The Economy of Algorithms is out today as we launch this episode.

Substack: www.marekkowal.substack.com

LinkedIn: Prof. Marek Kowalkiewicz

What you will learn

• Exploring the economy of algorithms


• The role of software and people in shaping digital futures


• Navigating the balance between automation and human oversight


• The metaphor of digital minions in the algorithmic world


• Engaging with generative AI and chatbots for practical tasks


• Implementing AI responsibly in academic and commercial research


• The importance of human agency in the age of automated decision-making

Episode Resources

ChatGPT 

prompt engineering

Google Bard (Gemini)

generative AI

Lama AI

shadow automation

shadow generative AI

large language model

Books

The Economy of Algorithms: AI and the Rise of the Digital Minions by Marek Kowalkiewicz 

Transcript

Ross Dawson: Marek, it’s awesome to have you on the show.

Marek Kowalkiewicz: Thanks so much for having me, Ross.

Ross: So I love the work that you do and I think it’s a very interesting frame. You just got a new book coming out called the Economy of Algorithms, which we want to hear more about.

Marek: Very proud of this, I spent a couple of years working on this book. So it’s a labor of love. It’s very much a book about this new world that’s emerging. That, strangely, it’s called the Economy of Algorithms. But it’s not just algorithms, it’s software, it’s people, it’s corporations. I wanted to write about this world where increasingly, we’re giving more and more agency to software agents, right, or algorithms. We’ll let them buy things, we’ll let them sell things, and we’ll let them deliver services on our behalf or to us. And so in a way, they’re starting to behave a bit like humans, or like other organizations in the economy. So I thought, you know, we need to capture it somehow. And that, that was a spin in the Economy of Algorithms.

Ross: There are some things that I’d like to dig into. One is about the architecture. You have these smart people with PhDs working in big tech and AI algorithms who are designing the architecture of these algorithms. And I think there is also an element in the every day where all of us are interacting with AI — plays a role in shaping that human-AI relationship. How much of this happens at the level of the macro design of the AI architecture; and how much of this is shaped by each of us that uses it?

Marek: So there is this, I think it’s an interesting trajectory or a process of learning about what’s happening in the world. The more I thought about automation and giving autonomy to technologies, the more I realized how important the role of humans is in the entire process. So, while I will not question the fact that algorithms are taking over individual tasks, and that algorithms are performing entire jobs that used to be done by humans, I realized, through seeing a lot of examples of how it played out in reality, that, in fact, we need to. We humans need to be the ones that work with algorithms to make sure that they don’t take the wrong path. They don’t deteriorate, they don’t misunderstand our intentions. And create outcomes that we don’t want to create. In fact, when you look at the subtitle of the book, it’s AI and the rise of digital minions. So I specifically wanted to refer to those minions that some of your listeners might know from the movie the minions, right. So, lots of, you know, there’s those yellow creatures that want to be helpful. Bu