Today I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. John Garrison.

A clinical psychologist and body language expert who runs the YouTube channel Dr. G explains.

In our interview we discuss,

• How do you know when someone’s behavior is Ocd?


• What it means to be caught in the honeymoon period.


• Understanding body language at its core.


• How to identify if someone is lying


• The body language of someone in love with you.


• How you decipher the body language of aggressive people


• How can you tell if someone is being serious


• Understanding narcissistic traits and narcissistic personality disorder.

Interview Transcript

Chris Seiter 00:11

so today we’re gonna be talking to Dr. Garrison, who has an MBA and Doctorate in clinical psychology is considered a body language expert and specializes in took specialized training and counterterrorism. His work has been featured in numerous media outlets, including Business Insider, Forbes, vice, Huffington Post, Yahoo News, real, some real simple and fatherly. I mean, I was just sort of like stumbling over myself with how how often you’ve been featured places. Thank you so much for coming.

Dr. G 00:40

I’m super happy to be here.

Chris Seiter 00:42

So we were talking a little bit before we actually started recording a little bit about how you have a background in diagnosing clinical disorders. Like, I guess, specifically, what I think is interesting to me here is the narcissistic personality disorder. And little bit of the, let’s just talk about the narcissistic personality disorder first, because I have noticed a lot of people in our community will say, Oh, my ex is narcissistic, but I’m not actually convinced to that. I think they just have some narcissistic traits not sure. Can you maybe speak to that a little

Dr. G 01:16

bit? Sure. So to make sense of that, I’m going to try to explain what personality disorders are because personality disorders are a little bit different than mental illness. And the way we differentiate that is something like depression, anxiety. The more common disorders that we hear about those are considered mental illness. A personality disorder is a dysfunction of the personality, they’re missing parts of their personality, that allow them to be a whole person to learn from interpersonal interaction, to get better to have a full satisfying life. So people that are missing these parts, they’ll have one part that is very dysfunctional, and it dominates their whole personality. So for a narcissist, for example, for someone with narcissistic personality disorder, grandiosity dominates their entire personality, they are genuinely pathologically grandiose. Historically, people have said, now it’s low self esteem being masked, it’s like no, they have pathologically high self esteem. They genuinely believe if someone is an actual narcissist, they genuinely believe they are better than other people, and other people are there to serve them in a very real way. So when we throw around the term narcissist, I think that can be used as a late term, it can be used casually, but oftentimes, it doesn’t actually mean narcissistic personality.

Chris Seiter 02:23

Yeah, I mean, we still, you know, obviously, we’re dealing with a lot of people who are heartbroken. So you know, there’s a lot of blame going on the other side they’ve been broken up with. And sometimes when I’ll talk about narcissists, I’ll talk about how they almost have like a supply Rolodex, where they’re just going from person to person getting their supply, and then moving on to the next person and kind of just they always have like someone for the different areas of their life that they need their, quote unquote, supply for, but I think people will sometimes take it too far and don’t under understand or differentiate that aspect of it.

Dr. G 02:58

Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people and I think fairly so will describe someone as a narcissist, just because they seem focused on themselves. They don’t have good empathy. They’re not caring about their partner or former partner’s feelings. So I get why people use that term. I use it sometimes to describe somebody even if they don’t literally have narcissistic personality. So, you know, I think it’s pretty common that we use that term and I get why people use it.

Chris Seiter 03:20

Yeah, Yeah, same. So the other really interesting thing, or at least one of the things I wanted to ask you about is we talk a lot about attachment styles when we’re trying to diagnose or at least like take educated guesses on like, Hey, this is why we think this x is acting this way. And after polling our community most of our community believes that their ex has an avoidant attachment style, but there’s a there’s I think it was like 60% believe that their ex has an avoidant attachment style and then around like 25% believe that their ex has a fearful avoidant attachment style. But everything that I’ve read about fearful avoidance and understand about fearful avoidance, this is incredibly rare. And sometimes it can be mis classified as multiple personality disorder. Kind of just curious want to get your take or thoughts on that.

Dr. G 04:06

So when we talk about and I’m not a specialist in attachment theory, but I’m familiar with it. So you know, if we may discuss this a little bit more as we go with when you think about avoidant, avoidant is anxiety really, because anxiety is built around the concept of avoidance, we can’t be anxious and not avoid it just comes with the territory. So someone like a narcissist, they’re not anxious. So if we see someone that we think of as being a narcissist, and that we think that there have avoidant attachment, that’s actually I mean, it’s possible but that’s typically not what we would associate with that. Same with, when we think of the fearful avoidant, there’s a lot of people that think of that as being closer to borderline personality disorder, which is an unstable personality, like that’s the characteristic of borderline personality, this most prevalent is the instability because they struggle being proportional and stable. That’s the challenge there. So actually, though, Even though people oftentimes think of that, because I’ve discussed this with people, borderline personality actually, if that’s Take this too far sideways is actually more of the preoccupied anxious, preoccupied style of attachment because they get obsessive and preoccupied with things.

05:15

Okay, so can you maybe even like talk a little bit more about that or dig a little bit deeper for me about that. That’s interesting, because most of the people that we’ve polled in our community, not only they believe that their ex is avoidant, but they believe that they’re, they’re anxious and preoccupied. Anxious. So like, can you maybe even just talk a bit about that multiple personality disorder aspect from the anxious perspective? And like how that stir of it, I guess,

Dr. G 05:40

definitely. Okay. So. So, when you’re talking about multiple personality, are you talking about somebody who is kind of like Jekyll and Hyde, who was like, nice, one minute, and me the next or someone who literally has multiple personalities, just to be super clear on the fact.

Chris Seiter 05:53

Okay, so I want to dive into both. But I will say this that most of the time, what our clients would be really interested in is understanding whether X X Hot one moment cold the next moment, got it. So I guess dive into both.

Dr. G 06:07

Okay, so. So I’ll talk about the diagnostic piece first, because this is what I’m sure is a little bit less relevant to your listeners. But for someone who has multiple personalities, we call it dissociative identity. It’s where they literally phase between different personalities that don’t recognize each other. I mean, it’s a really serious diagnosis and a very rare with so probably not a lot of

Chris Seiter 06:28

people. Have you ever met someone with multiple personality disorder? One that

Dr. G 06:32

claims to have it so whether or not I’ve ever met an authentic person with it? I can’t say I’ve, I’ve, I’ve evaluated one person that claims to be experiencing that. But I couldn’t even really fully get clarity on whether or not that was legitimate. So it’s pretty rare. It really is. But but as far as, like someone who is hot, one minute cold the next. So just to get some clarity from you, would it be like that? One minute, they’re, they’re caring and close? And then one minute, they’re angry and aloof? I mean, is that sort of what you’re talking about?

Chris Seiter 07:10

Yeah, usually it’s, you know, they’re doing something that makes the client believe, Oh, they’re interested in coming back. And then, and then, I mean, I certainly have my own thoughts about like, why this is happening. But I’m just curious, and I don’t want to like, infect your your thinking at all. But basically, they’re doing something that makes the client believe like, Oh, they’re interested in coming back, and then all of a sudden, they disappear, or they even just lash out and grow angry.

Dr. G 07:37

So one of the things that can make somebody do that? Well, it’s kind of okay, so here’s where I’m struggling with this. Because I’m thinking about this, as we’re talking, I see a lot of couples, and there’s always there’s so many reasons for people’s behaviors. But one of the reasons that we see when someone is hot and cold like that, it can be because they’re manipulative, and because they want to have control. So they want to maybe throw some strings out and lead people on. For some people, it’s because they